@Ken Anderson My Dad spoke as he did because he was what I came to refer to in later life as "basically irreligious". Not an Atheist, nor even Agnostic, if I interpret that latter one accurately. Agnostics I believe besmirch others' their religious beliefs. That he didn't do, but rather made suggestions derived from the way he saw things occurring about us in life. I, too, am basically irreligious. I've held, though, throughout my life, that that fact does not relieve me from adherence to basic acceptable behavior and action, just as religious folks' mores are directed. In other words, having always heard my neighbor's reason for always going out of his way to help others as ensuring his entry through the Pearly Gates, I saw that he feared Devine retribution, feared God. For the irreligious, we must fear intervention from within ourselves for stepping out of line. And I do fear it. Frank
But what about those that believe differently than you @Ken Anderson ...how many heavens are there or how many gods? Why would yours be the one that is right is what I don't understand. Even christians have different beliefs...why would one God allow that? Catholics Believe in baptism as a baby, others don't ...Catholicism predates your religion I think, would make more sense for that to be more accurate. Every religion believes honestly that theirs is the right one. I'm willing to bet my life on the fact that if there is a heaven, I'll be there...and I believe differently than you do about what it takes. Native Americans have different beliefs...didn't God create them also? I'm just using that group as an example but there are many such groups that probably didn't know of the Bible. Whatever happens after we die doesn't worry me and if it's like what I remember before I was born that's good enough for me and I would prefer it to be just that...nothing. There is nothing to fear about dying except if it's a painful process.
@Chrissy Cross "Why would yours be the one that is right is what I don't understand." Your post illustrates what I tried to express regarding my family's being irreligious. His is the one that's "right" for him. Simple. Mine is the only type that's "right" for folks like me. Also simple. For me, the "cows came home" long ago. Frank
I shouldn't have even posted because discussions about religion and heaven and hell or afterlife never really go anywhere. Everyone still believes what they believe and nobody's mind was changed.
He allowed it in His closest disciples, so I would guess, yes. There were many times when His disciples didn't get it and, while He would try to correct their understanding, I don't see that He rejected them because of their failures or misunderstandings.
But your reply still,assumes that your God is the right one. What if it's another religion's God that is the creator? Also how can you know what God rejected or didn't reject? You weren't there.
@Chrissy Cross, you are, of course, free to believe whatever you wish. If you don't want to believe in trees, don't believe in trees, but the trees will still be there for me. By your reasoning, anything that anyone believes in is real, and anything they don't believe in ceases to exist. If that were true, anyone could simply believe that they were going to live forever. I strongly suspect that they will still die though, regardless of what they believe. God exists whether you believe in Him or not, and He is what He is, regardless of what you might believe about Him. You can believe otherwise.
I'm not telling you not to believe but there is a difference in trees and God. I can understand believing in trees...they are there right before your eyes.
My point is that if there is a God, He is there whether you believe in Him or not, and if He is what He is, then that is what He is whether or not you believe it. That's all. It might be nice to simply believe that I am never going to die, but I don't think that would add even one minute to my lifespan.
Well,if there is a God, I'd be happy about it, not saying I don't want there to be one...I'm just saying everybody has different ideas and versions of who goes to heaven and what heaven is. Maybe there's more than one God and more than one heaven and everybody is right in what they believe ...it's possible...Greek mythology has different gods.
@Frank Sanoica , the definition of an agnostic, is a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause of the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable. So it's not that they don't believe in anything, it's more like they are saying, "I believe in a greater being, but I'm just not sure humans are intelligent enough to designate who or what the Creator is. So it's not that an agnostic doesn't believe in God necessarily, but an agnostic's feels more like they can see that our Creator gave us many ways to understand and communicate with our Creator. My father was a Baptist minister, so I was taught the Christian way. Then after being forced into an arranged marriage at 13, I started looking for a "God" that made sense to me. I spent several years trying to comprehend all the deferent ways people chose to believe. I ended up listening to my Native American Indian grandmother's teaching. NAI's never had a bible, other than the earth, animals, and our spirits. She taught me to believe and see that my Creator was inside me. She also taught me that there are many paths to The Creator. I took that to mean that all beliefs show us a way the to reach whatever deity we believe in. From what I've seen, Christians and NAIs have many of the same beliefs.
"From what I've seen, Christians and NAIs have many of the same beliefs. I now know why old women don't tell" @Ina I. Wonder Curious that so greatly detached two cultures were, European Religion and NAIs, that they might have shared same beliefs. Either those beliefs were IMO, self-evident, or instilled by God in both, or the comparison fails. Now, dammit, what IS it that old women don't tell? I tried for a clandestine, non-descript answer for months via a signature, but no one ventured forth. Frank
Hello @Frank Sanoica , many religions have similar basic innate concepts. I guess I should have written that statement to say old men and women, but I just wrote what popped into my head. When I was young, I use to wonder why older people didn't tell the younger generations more about the pitfalls of life in general. I remember hearing about the good times, so I couldn't wait for those times to start. But as the hard times began to happened, I also began to wonder why we were not told about the hardships as well. I came to understand that if the older generation had told our youth both sides of how life could be, that many would have chosen different paths to avoid the pitfall. And that would have change the family dynamics altogether. Dumb right? Now I'll have to think of something different for my signature statement.
One of my friends has just come to the point in her life where her children are putting her in a nursing home, and she has pretty much lost all control of her life , her finances, and her freedom. Evelyn used to be my friend and neighbor for the last 4-5 years, and we both enjoyed going to yard sales, out for lunch together, or just the occasional trip to the thrift store. She was on the forum here for a while, and also became friends with @Ina I. Wonder , and we all went out to lunch together when Ina was here visiting us. Evelyn's daughter and grandson had moved in with her, and they all worked together to help each other, until last spring, when her daughter decided that she was moving back out. Because Evelyn had let her health issues get worse, her family didn't want her to stay there alone, and before she even knew that her daughter had moved out (it was done while Evelyn was gone for a doctor appointment), her other daughter had arranged for Evelyn to go and live with her son and daughter-in-law in Mississippi. By that afternoon, they were packing up her most important belongings and moving her out of her house. Although she didn't want to leave, she also knew that she needed someone to be there in case she fell or just got very sick, and she was looking forward to spending more time with her son and his family; so the move went fairly well. However, last week, she fell (or passed out ?) and couldn't get back up again, and ended up in the hospital, where they discovered she has more heart problems than she knew that she had. Her family decided that she should be put into a nursing home, even though she is fine to still live in their home, as long as they were there to care for her. Since they refused, and none of her other children want to take her in, she has no choice in the matter, and was supposed to be moved directly from the hospital to the nursing home. She called me from the hospital in tears, but not knowing what else she could do. The saddest part is that she can't take along Sadie, her little dog that she has had from a puppy, and the family is giving Sadie away to someone else, where she won't even be able to see her when she visits her son and family. To me, this is just one of the scariest futures, and it is one of the things that motivates me to stay as healthy as I can do. I am not really concerned about dying, except that I know it would be hard for my kids to lose their mother; but other than that, or the possibility of going through a long and painful death, I do not worry that I might not wake up some morning. However, I can see that if a person does not take care of their health, eventually, they will get to the same place in life as my friend is at, and other people will then make the decisions about where we live, and we will lose all control of our life. By the time we get to that point, there is no turning back; so it is important to take care of our health while we still have it, and hope that we don't have to come to the place where everything is taken away from us.
That's tragic. While I can't second guess the motivations or decisions made by her family, since they probably believe that they're doing the responsible thing, it is painful to realize that other people, including family members, can't know or fully appreciate what matters most to anyone other than theirselves. The dog, for example. If I were living alone and faced with a decision that required me to choose between abandoning my cats or endangering my life, I'd take the chance and stay with my cats. That wouldn't make sense to everyone. There are some terrific housing choices for seniors in such situations, but they are inevitably hugely expensive and not affordable for most people. The regulations and required licensures for those offering housing solutions for the elderly, outside of their own family, create such a high overhead that they pretty much mandate high expenses.