So, would you care to offer a synopsis or maybe even an opinion on what you read? WHAT would be a solution to some of our immigrant problems? You throw a thread up there and depend on everyone else to read your mind Lon or go out and buy the book or movie or whatever it is.
My dear Marie, not to worry the least bit. Something has to suffer whilst multi-tasking and you can always do what most of us do and blame spell-check. In one way or the other, we’re all slaves to spell check so even when it is within our power to do the correct thing, the task master needs to get blamed once in a while. (of course, the “edit” button does come in handy if we feel extra benevolent to our peers and the task master, spell check)
I don't understand how my post warranted a lecture in American Indian history which I am well versed. I also know factual American Indian history that has been passed down in my family on both sides. I was merely commenting that NOT even the Americans here before the Europeans as a group (the American Indians) are fine with the open borders and the mass unchecked illegal immigration that our current administration sponsors. The topic was about the possibility of making immigration possible for immigrants by serving a time as a servant. This is not a new concept. Many Prussians and Germans came to the USA as indentured servants back in the 1700s. .
I apologize for misunderstanding your reply. Usually the subject will go into how bad Indians were treated by the white man so I thought that was where you were going.
. I understood Lons thread very clearly. What he has read about past servitude in trade for passage to America, he sees as a possible solution to our crisis on the southern border. I disagree! There is way too many coming to the USA by simply walking over the border and past servitude was in trade for passage. How would their servitude solve any problem? The wealthy would profit and the middle-class taxpayer would still be burdened to pay for all the social services these indentured servants would use. You can bet your sweet biff that the masters of these servants wouldn't pay their fair share. So to Lon, I would say servitude isn't a solution since these "immigrants" don't need passage by ship and the country is overburdened as is. Finish the wall and seal the borders both south and north and upgrade and increase the Coast Guard.
I do agree with your post and I understand the basics of the thread but so far as reading the material he recommended, I have not. My point is that if you or I wrote that those on this forum should read a manuscript, we’d write a brief synopsis or a general outline of what interests us and might interest others. To me, just throwing a name up there or a link and saying it’s interesting without telling me why I should run to go find it just doesn’t get it done. Without reading his recommendation or at least reading his own rendition of the material all I have left is the same as you and come up with my own opinions of indentured servitude versus slavery which I have already done on 2 or 3 previous threads.
That is why my first response to his post was, "How so?" I have no problem with anyone throwing out just an idea or question, but I do think a response to my question, "How so? by the poster Lon, would have been a necessary follow to have a discussion. I think when one makes a long introductory post with links or references, it is overlooked. Very few take the time to read long posts, especially introductory posts. So I don't fault Lon for his short intro in hopes of starting a discussion that interested him, but I was a bit put off that I didn't get his reasoning why he proposed such a question. Perhaps he is just helping to keep the forum active with his hit and run but that is a discussion for another thread and board. I agree that without the original poster's thoughts on why he paralleled servitude in trade for passage with servitude for entering a country illegally, then the thread isn't worth discussing and soon derailed. I think the original poster has to help steer the direction of their thread, but again that is a topic for another board and thread.
I was curious enough to look up the book or manuscript on Bing and Google with no direct results using Lon’s wording. There was historical information of Indentured Servants as published by everyone from the Encyclopedia Brittanica to PBS and of course Wiki but no data by the name given which is frustrating due to the fact that he referenced something about solving our immigration problems. Now the question arises as to whether he’s touting the use of indentured servitude as a means of say, our AG industry’s use of immigrant farm workers or simply telling the immigrants who come here illegally that they would be essentially enslaved by making them indentured servants? Since historically the use of indentured servitude in the U.S. [or rather, the beginnings of what was to become the U.S.] comes directly from the establishment of Jamestown and the further use by the British as free labor it was really nothing BUT slavery. The Chinese and the Cartels from South America are already shipping immigrants here as indentured to them and putting them in sweat shops and as drug runners and into prostitution so how is making U.S. sanctioned immigrants indentured servants any different than that in the long run? The only exception I might be able to get my head around is the use of indentured apprentices. In a way, that practice is still being done by major corporations such as the Westin Hotel chain. A person wants to become a chef so the Hotel puts them through school with a contract stating that after the certification process is completed the new chef renders himself or herself as an employee for 2 years. Granted, they still get paid but they’re still locked in. Now, how to apply that concept to immigrants I do not know but of course, i can speculate.
Masters could provide food and shelter in return for the servants labor. Servants with specialized skills could receive wages as well. All immigrants under consideration not just the southern border. Unskilled Southern Border Immigrants could continue as Farm Laborers as in the past. Creative minds other than mine can find additional solutions.
Exactly! Indentured servitude and slavery have always existed in this country That is already happening Lon and has been for years.
Indentured servitude has indeed been here and all over the world for thousands of years and is a good way of paying one’s debt to another if indeed that method is totally agreed upon by both parties and the services rendered are reasonable and legal. Example: Apprenticeships and internships are nothing but being indentured to another in exchange for knowledge. Contractual agreements regarding post apprenticeships are often a tenet to the exchange so to me there’s nothing wrong with that. But…… My take on Lon’s statement is he wants to create a greater number of the bourgeois whilst also creating and using another strata of low income or near slave wage workers to help enrich those using said labor. The whole endeavor would have some heavy ramifications on the idea’s constitutionality. Whether non-citizens fall under the purview of the Constitution of the United States is irrelevant because anything close to slavery is illegal under any circumstances. It’s a given that there’s a fine line between services rendered in exchange for property or services and using immigrants for the cause of enrichment but it’s a line nonetheless. We already have a problem with people from other countries undercutting what our own workers will work for so why add near free labor to that already undesirable equation?
Couldn't have said it better myself [ but then yall already know that]. Onlything I'd ad is a bible verse " if a man doesn't work he shouldn't eat ". Begging has become a lifestyle in this nation now and do gooders spending other peoples money has to. Evey year more able bodied men join the welfare rolls. And their children are supported by men who work while they live off the lamb. Is this fair and to whom is it fair? charity for those who actually quilify is a wonderful but this isn't charity.