Most of us parents feel the same way you do. Nobody touches my kids but me. I told hubby I'll correct them and of course he didn't mind since he is so easy going. But one day when my son was 16 I was so angry I told him "whip his ass", he said,' I've been with him for over 10 years, and I've never laid on hand on him and I'm not starting now'. I was switching him, and he looked down on me and said, 'mom I'm too big for you to be doing that. He was cutting school and lying to me..
Discipline needn't be physical but it needs to be consistent And yes, teachers can defend themselves. Don't threaten, promise. If the kid needs detention, he gets it and then if he skips it, maybe temporary dismissal from school with parent teacher meetup . And on from there. If the kid needs help, it will be found out. If a grownup causes property damage, he goes to jail and then to court for reparations. No money or job? Maybe he can clean streets for a while or park trimming, snow shoveling... If he skips, then he goes to prison for a bit....
Actually corporal punishment was only rumored (but never observed) when I was in school, too. The mention of being sent to the principal's office struck terror in our hearts. I had an elementary teacher who would slam a ruler on her desk to quiet us down and it was effective. I never knew of anyone actually being spanked at school. I agree with @Mary Stetler ; children need consistency and they need to know that there are consequences to their behavior.
I guess it could be called abuse on both ends of the spectrum. The one aspect of a Principle having that paddle readily available was that just the mere knowledge that he had it was enough to slow a trouble maker down. So far as handing out the scrips, well, unless it’s for a bonafide problem, I just can’t wrap my head around doping up a kid just because he either looks bored or on the other end, seems overactive. With that, there’s a definite link between school shootings and the antidepressants that kids are readily given.
I remember when I was in the 5th grade (or thereabouts) when word got out that one of the school bullies got “whacks” before he was suspended. No one ever questioned how the word got out or who initially passed it but it wasn’t long before that paddle grew in dimensions and some said it even had thumbtacks sticking out of it whilst others said it had a thousand holes drilled into it. Oh, and yes, it had several notches on the handle. Either way, beyond a good morning Mr. ?, no one wanted to get sent to the principle’s office.
Back when we were kids, going to the principle's office could involve contacting the parents. Now, If you wanted to cause trepidation in a kid, that was the way to get it. Sadly, today, I think a lot of parents don't help with consistent discipline. I am not sure they understand the term. And sometimes they fight the teachers instead of coming to mutual solutions. It is like kids running around the house screaming and fighting, Mom's on the phone and nothing happens. Or kids running around the house screaming and fighting through a phone call. But then a lamp gets knocked over and Mom takes to smacking the kids. Inconsistent. These days with two income families, parents are not always on the ball either.
In the news this morning, apparently the schools in Missouri are still paddling along with about another dozen states. The thing that was brought to light, is that corporal punishment [in Missouri] is only used with a parent’s permission and is an alternative to suspension. The part that was highlighted the most though, was that the students are starting a campaign to stop the 1-3 swats they might have to endure stating that it’s psychologically and physically damaging which of course some parents agree with. To further back up the students, the parents are more in line with using a councilor with the belief that every student is different and with different problems. The parents that opt in however, can even attend the ordeal and from one article I read, can even do the deed themselves or can merely observe which omits the need for a licensed party to attend. In any case, it’s a debacle for sure because on one hand, a suspension might be painless but does Johnny learn by sitting home for a week playing computer games versus having to endure a couple of swats and it’s off to class again. Dunno. As I remember it, somewhere in the line of swats, reform school always hovered over the heads of wayward students with very little mention of suspension.
we've come a long way from rote learning. Educational psychology and philosophy are now integrated in such a way as to allow all of us to deal with modern concepts and understanings. The saviour to such a view is that old people die and, hopefully, thise thoughts and procedures that are no longer applicable. The young will recognise what is valuable and use it to their advantage as well as add to it with their own experiences. The planet is in good hands in spite of those who went before them. Give them room to better themselves learn new ways. They wont think badly of us, Im sure.
That might be a part of the problem. That's similar to the way that literature classes were conducted when I was in high school, except that our teacher would play the guitar and sing the lyrics himself.
Good morning to all- Corporal punishment is an interesting topic- especially in the public schools. I taught in many places for many years, and I have to say that I never saw corporal punishment as a very effective option for correcting student behavior. I have witnessed corporal punishment being given out, and while it seemed to get the kid's attention for the moment, it had no long-lasting effect. The most memorable occasion I witnessed the lack of benefit of corporal punishment was a high school student who had skipped school and spoken unacceptably to teacher and principal when confronted. Parent (father) was called in to be present at paddling- the student's choice of outcomes instead of suspension. The principal readied the kid, held on to the kid's back belt to make sure that the kid was not impacted on the tailbone or other place and when the first paddle strike landed, both the kid and the parent collapsed to the floor screaming and then threatening to sue the school and the principal- and me too- for the abuse. A pitiful and obviously set-up reaction. Nothing ever came from this, and the kid dropped out later. corporal punishment is just not an effective means of behavior modification.in school. you all be safe and keep well- Ed
what do you see as the problem. Ken, and what evidence do you that these problems exists? One thing I realised quite soon after starting my teaching career is that I should never assume that the student, or anyone else for that matter, knows what I know. Nor should I assume I know the things my student knows. there’s also a strong expectation among parents that it’s the teachers responsibility to ensure their child turns out as the parent would want. Oh, if that were at all possible, or probable. each of us could give examples of the ignorance of others. I might be shocked to find that you can’t solve a quadratic equation or operate a control stick for a computer game or don’t like rap music or know where Nhulunbuy is. What would that prove? Nothing other that we know different things. When you know it all, let me know. I’ll be happy to listen. Until I get bored.
I went to a private Mennonite elementary school for 7 years. Hand smacking with rulers was common but Mr. Brunk was the one who really dealt it out. He had a chair which he’d have you get on your knees, bend over the seat, put your head through the rungs of the back, then he would take off his belt and let you have it a few times. We all turned out fine. The funny thing was there was this one big, goofy farmer’s son, really a fun loving guy, loved his recess play time. Once I saw him ask Mr. Brunk if he could take a beating instead of missing recess. LOL.
Tom Dinning, If the changes in our Educational System are improved so much....why there are kids graduating from HS and not being able to read a four words sentence nor write they own names? I was a a Prof. of Spanish in HS / college and in countless occasions I had to teach them - first- their own language.