Do You See Anything Wrong With Nationalism?

Discussion in 'Politics & Government' started by Lon Tanner, Nov 10, 2018.

  1. Lon Tanner

    Lon Tanner Supreme Member
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    I don't as long as it's not carried to the extreme like it was in Nazi Germany.
     
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  2. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    No, I think it's important for people to believe that their country comes first. It's an extension of individuality and family. Until the Civil War, most people were loyal first to themselves, their family, their community, and state before country.
     
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  3. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Supreme Member
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    And most of them held God in high esteem. You get that from the Civil War letters....
     
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  4. Martin Alonzo

    Martin Alonzo Supreme Member
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    Nationalism is a good idea but the people must be in control not the government.
     
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  5. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Supreme Member
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    Nazism wasn't simply nationalism. A large part was control of the population and scapegoating. If you had taken the SS and the war against the Jews, the gypsies and others away, it would have been entirely different. Expansionism was brought on partly as a result of WWI and partly to feed Hitler's ego. Nationalism per se isn't necessarily a bad thing, but sometimes the things that come along with it are not good.
     
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  6. Beatrice Taylor

    Beatrice Taylor Veteran Member
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    I would choose patriotism over nationalism.

    IMO feelings of superiority over others is a very dangerous thing even if in some cases it may be true.

    @Martin Alonzo your post made me think of this quote that some people attribute to Thomas Jefferson.

    "When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty."
     
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    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
  7. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    Nationalism doesn't imply a feeling of superiority. It simply implies that I care more about the welfare of my own country than that of another country. I would expect someone from England or France to care more for their countries than for the world in general, as well. It doesn't mean a lack of concern for problems going on around the world either, just that I will take care of my own country first. German nationalism, in the 1930s and 1940s, was one of superiority, but that was peculiar to Germany and its leaders during that time. The United States was formed as a nation by people who were nationalists, which is why they spoke against involving ourselves in foreign wars.
     
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  8. Thomas Stearn

    Thomas Stearn Veteran Member
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    As often, certain terms can mean different things to different people as is confirmed in this thread. My understanding of nationalism is that it is based on rivalry and resentment. It can be militant because it assumes that one's own country is superior to others and expresses that actively. Criticisms of one's own country is often not acceptable to a nationalist who considers it insulting and who tends to highlight the virtues of a country and not those aspects which actually need improving. Thus, nationalists tend to justify mistakes made in the past. Their aim is independence and dominance.

    Patriots, on the other hand, admire their country's achievements and virtues and recognise that those can still be improved. They are aware of its deficiencies. They tend to be tolerant, peaceful, passive, and egalitarian based on affection and a responsibility for their country.

    A look at Merriam-Webster dictionary reveals that patriotism is about 150 years older than the concept of nationalism with patriotism being used as early as in the middle of the 17th century. Nationalism came into use not earlier than the turn of the 18th century. Both were then used as synonyms for a period of time before, in the 19th century, the meaning of nationalism started to change now including “ 'exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups.' This exclusionary aspect is not shared by patriotism."

    Yesterday during a speech in Paris marking the 100th anniversary of the end of WW I, Emmanuel Macron seemed to share this understanding when he said that "Patriotism is the exact opposite of nationalism" and called it a "betrayal of patriotism" if nationalist sentiment to the disadvantage of others is evoked.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
  9. Martin Alonzo

    Martin Alonzo Supreme Member
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    Patriotism, Nationalism These are just words and the meaning is filled in with the persons own belief.
    Germany at the 2WW were patriots to there country so you could call that nationalism was also patriotism. We should not be caught in labels. I would think that POTUS interpretation of Nationalism would be let make our country great before we worry about helping the rest of the world. True Nationalism is made up of patriots.
     
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  10. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Supreme Member
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    Nationalism isn’t bad at all if we avoid a couple of the pitfalls that can accompany the more contemporary forms of it.
    We have the symbolism, evolution and the proper governmental system (as decreed in our Bill of Rights and The Constitution) but the pitfall of identifying who should and should not be allowed into our “community” is a modernistic view that we must take a long and hard look at.

    As ensampled by some of the above posts, Germany went through an identity crisis whilst trying to determine who should and should not be German citizens. Anyone who was deemed as inferior such as the Jews, people of color, or even someone with learning disabilities could be annexed and considered unworthy of German citizenry.
    In the case of the United States and prior to the civil war it was the American Indian, people of African decent and to a very large degree Asians.

    As long as we as a nation and individually can comfortably say that we are a country which espouses people of all faiths, colors and place of origin, we can safely assume the posture of being a nationalist country in it’s purest sense.
    Now do note: There are those who sincerely believe that being a nationalist is to believe in the purity of a nation’s people which is indeed a racist agenda and has no place in today’s definition of nationalism especially as it pertains to the U.S.
    When the president said that he is a nationalist, the former connotations of that word came to bear out some interest (and not without a lot of help from a leftist media) and condemnation from those who are determined to re-invent the true actual meaning of the word.

    Does nationalism mean sovereignty? Of course. The Indian Nation is a Sovereign nation as is Italy, Germany, England and the U.S.
    Should a nationalist believe that his or her nation is above all the others? Not necessarily but he should believe that his nation has the higher priority over all others.

    I am a nationalist. I believe first in God, Family and Country. My God, My Family, and My Country and all the symbolism and history that goes with that. Those are my highest priorities...............
     
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  11. Hal Pollner

    Hal Pollner Veteran Member
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    Am I a Nationalist? ABSOLUTELY!

    Nationalism is the highest form of Patriotism and Loyalty to one's Country!

    I also admire all the Countries of the world who have National Pride!

    Hal
     
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  12. Yvonne Smith

    Yvonne Smith Senior Staff
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  13. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Supreme Member
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    Right, @Yvonne Smith. Patriotism is usually expressed as love of country and dedication. Nationalism is more collective in nature. For instance, "American Exceptionalism" is Nationalism. I think the Marshall Plan after WWII was also an example of Nationalism, in that the U.S. felt that compassion for those whose lives were destroyed during the war and we were the ones with the resources to remedy the problem. We have moved away from the idea of Nationalism now, and have moved into proselytizing for "democracy" in places like Iraq and Afghanistan, and "nation building". I feel this is not the same thing. Patriotism leads to standing for the Pledge and enlisting in the military after 9-11, but nationalism is the feeling that the country you live in is the best in the world.
     
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  14. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Supreme Member
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