Has Science Discovered God?

Discussion in 'Faith & Religion' started by Joe Riley, May 20, 2019.

  1. Joe Riley

    Joe Riley Supreme Member
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    So, what are these stunning discoveries that have scientists suddenly speaking of God? Three revolutionary discoveries from the fields of astronomy and molecular biology stand out:
    1. The universe had a beginning
    2. The universe is just right for life
    3. DNA coding reveals intelligence

    The statements leading scientists have made about these discoveries may shock you. Let’s take a look.
     
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  2. Joe Riley

    Joe Riley Supreme Member
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    Minimum Oxygen Concentration for Human Breathing
    The narrow slice of life-giving oxygen in our atmosphere is between 19.5% and 23%.;)

    Normal Air Composition

    "Each time you take a breath, you inhale more than oxygen. The normal air in our environment consists of a few different gases. Approximately 78 percent of the air is nitrogen gas while only about 20.9 percent is oxygen. The remaining fraction is made up of primarily argon gas, but trace amounts of carbon dioxide, neon and helium are also present."

    Safe Oxygen Levels

    "For humans and many animals to sustain normal functions, the percentage of oxygen required to sustain life falls within a small range. The Occupational Safety and Health Administration, OSHA, determined the optimal range of oxygen in the air for humans runs between 19.5 and 23.5 percent."

     
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    Last edited: May 20, 2019
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  3. Peter Renfro

    Peter Renfro Veteran Member
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    I don't understand what any of this has to do with "God"
    There is a creator/intelligent designer, but not a God,
    Our universe is such a wonderful inter connected perfectly functioning system that in my mind could just not have happened by some lucky happenstance, which leads me to believe in a creator.
    Big difference beteween a creator and a god.
    There is no one up there that is pointing a disapproving finger at any nation group or individual . Just to keep it timely we could abort every baby conceived in the old confederacy and there would be no "judgment" or "penalty".
    There would be no hurricane or tornado to smite the sinner,no flood or earthquake to extinguish the heathen, nope just a smoothly functioning system that for all practicable purposes is running on auto pilot.
     
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  4. Jerry Adams

    Jerry Adams Veteran Member
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    Pete, "old confederacy" has me confused. Would you please elaborate what you mean by that term.
    Thanks
     
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  5. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Supreme Member
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    @Peter Renfro I think you have some twisted ideas as to what /who God is. You had misunderstandings as to what religion is in a previous thread, but in this you describe God--at least in one concept of God--and then say it isn't God. My only question would be:"Did you ever take a logic course?" You don't seem to be able to make a logical statement. Methinks perhaps too many cannabinoids have passed into your system, as I have seen this type of thinking in many people who have smoked MJ heavily for a long period of time. Believe what you will, but it gets confusing when you enter the conversation on religion.
     
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  6. Peter Renfro

    Peter Renfro Veteran Member
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    Not that difficult. Old Confederacy, Group of traitorous states that attempted to destroy this country in 1865, generally the states that today are trying to push the nation back into those days,by forcing a religious based crusade to set womans,and others rights back 50 years.
     
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  7. Peter Renfro

    Peter Renfro Veteran Member
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    If you profess to be a "Christian" of course you think my ideas are twisted. Creator/God? you don't understand the difference. Not that hard a concept. A God is demanding, jealous petty, demands worship from his slaves. Creator creates maintains is you me the trees dirt worms fish. Creator is what we are!
    You really don't think you are special do you?
    Logic is straight forward lineal without deviation, where does my theory diverge from that?
     
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  8. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Supreme Member
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    @Don Alaska

    I don't understand. As far as I can interpret, your wording here is as ILLogical as @Peter Renfro 's. In the lengthy novel I'm engrossed in currently, taking place in Iran in 1979, shortly after the Shah Pahlavi left, virtually everyone compares everything, spoken, acted upon, or otherwise involving human activity as "God's wishes". Which God did they refer to?
    Frank
     
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  9. Joe Riley

    Joe Riley Supreme Member
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    I have known the One True, and Holy God, for over fifty years and have found him to be a Personal and Relational, Father God. I count myself blessed and thank him for the life he has given me, and the Life, he has promised me.


    A Scientist Discovers God

    "Who has measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, or with the breadth of his hand marked off the heavens?" — Isaiah 40:12

    "Allan Rex Sandage, the greatest observational cosmologist in the world — who deciphered the secrets of the stars, plumbed the mysteries of quasars, revealed the age of globular clusters, pinpointed the distances of remote galaxies, and quantified the universe’s expansion through his work at the Mount Wilson and Palomar observatories — prepared to step onto the conference platform."

    "Then the unexpected happened. Sandage set the room abuzz by turning and taking a chair among the theists. Even more dazzling, in the context of a talk about the big bang and its philosophical implications, he disclosed publicly that he had become a Christian at age fifty. The big bang, he told the rapt audience, was a supernatural event that cannot be explained within the realm of physics as we know it."

    "For me, the road to atheism was paved by science, but, ironically, so was my later journey to God. Good information, I am convinced, points us to a good God."
     
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  10. Bob Kirk

    Bob Kirk Veteran Member
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    "Who has measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, or with the breadth of his hand marked off the heavens?" — Isaiah 40:12

    So if I understand that bible verse correctly God would be outside where the heavens were marked off.

    Where would that be?
     
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  11. Joseph Carl

    Joseph Carl Very Well-Known Member
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    Please allow me to make my debut here as a new member with my first posting. I'll respond concisely to Joe's 3 points first, then touch on my own conclusion.

    The universe having a definite beginning is accepted by nearly all scientists (and atheists) today because of the cosmological and mathematical evidence. The implication of this is that there had to be a supernatural creator outside of our universe in order for our universe of time, space, and matter to exist. The first law of thermodynamics mandates this conclusion - that something can't come from nothing. And while famous atheist Richard Dawkins suggests that the universe did just pop into existence from nothing, and other scientists propose crazy quantum mechanic ideas with no evidence, the strongest, most accepted physical laws of the universe support the creationists' view.

    The fine tuning of the universe, also known as the anthropic principle, is another realization that scientists have made thanks to numerous cosmological discoveries. There are over 30 well established cosmological principles detailing the incredible precision created and maintained in order for life to exist on earth. The statistical probability of just 2 or 3 of these parameters happening by chance is nearly impossible, with the chance of all falling into place without supernatural intervention being absurd. While secular scientists and atheists continue to promote the idea that the orderly universe resulted from a disorderly explosion, the well established second law of thermodynamics (that entropy occurs) again supports the creationists' view.

    The recent discovery of DNA coding is indisputable evidence of intelligent design, just as the software program on one's computer is. Nowhere in this world is new information developed by random, chance processes; it always comes from a mind. The significance of this is that the cells in all life are far more complicated now than scientists knew back in Darwin's day. We can no longer support the idea that mixing some components together randomly can create life, because the statistical odds of creating even one simple, living cell by random chance processes is impossible. The complex DNA coding adds to the other biological and biochemistry cell functions that support another well established scientific law: the law of biogenesis, which states that life only comes from life. We've never found any exceptions and the secular scientists and atheists concede that they have no idea how life evolved. The creationists understand that it took something outside of the laws of the universe to create life - a supernatural creator.

    There is an overwhelming amount of evidence within the fields of cosmology, astronomy, biology, biochemistry, physics, mathematics, geology, genetics, and information technology that support creationism over evolution. Joe's 3 examples discussed above are but 3 of the good ones. They alone should be enough to convince any open minded, science believing, reasonable person that we're all here by the mind of a supernatural, powerful creator that transcends time, space, and matter. By most definitions, such a creator would be called a divine being of some sort - or more commonly, a god. Now, which religion represents this god correctly is another discussion I look forward to as a Christian. But for this thread, it's safe to say that the discoveries of science DO lead us to our Creator, and most of us consider that Creator to be the God of the Bible.
     
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  12. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Supreme Member
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    @Joseph Carl
    I must respectfully say I disagree that "most of us" would think thusly. In fact, millions upon millions of folks would not. However, there is no reason to unequivocally state that those practicing religion which does NOT, are to be in any way pre-judged.

    Welcome to the forum! I hope to be able to discuss things with you, as everyone does, I am sure, in areas of less incongruity.

    Frank
     
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  13. Yvonne Smith

    Yvonne Smith Senior Staff
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    WOW, just WOW, @Joseph Carl , what an impressive first post ! Well-written, easy to understand, and very informative. I am sincerely looking forward to hearing more of your views, especially about creation and the Creator God, here in our religious threads.
    Not everyone in the forum believes in God, of course, but those of us who do , enjoy discussing about God, creation, and the Bible as well.
    Most of the more “orthodox” Christian topics are here in the religious section, but we have some of the more “fringe” topics also , that are in the conspiracy and paranormal area, simply because they are out of what most people are interested in discussing.
    Welcome to the forum !
     
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  14. Joy Martin

    Joy Martin Veteran Member
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    Joseph Carl, welcome, I'm pretty new here too. But won't get into this discussion. I was as I feel brainwashed for most of my life and finally got off the fence in my mid 60's, I'm 80 and a good human being and avoid labels....

    What makes the most sense to me, which I found or it found me in the 80's is Science of Mind (SOM) and I have a thread on it here...I believe.
     
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    Last edited: May 27, 2019
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  15. Bob Kirk

    Bob Kirk Veteran Member
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    Not all science

    How did life begin and evolve on Earth, and has it evolved elsewhere in the Solar System?
    Microbial life forms have been discovered on Earth that can survive and even thrive at extremes of high and low temperature and pressure, and in conditions of acidity, salinity, alkalinity, and concentrations of heavy metals that would have been regarded as lethal just a few years ago. These discoveries include the wide diversity of life near sea–floor hydrothermal vent systems, where some organisms live essentially on chemical energy in the absence of sunlight. Similar environments may be present elsewhere in the solar system.

    Understanding the processes that lead to life, however, is complicated by the actions of biology itself. Earth’s atmosphere today bears little resemblance to the atmosphere of the early Earth, in which life developed; it has been nearly reconstituted by the bacteria, vegetation, and other life forms that have acted upon it over the eons. Fortunately, the solar system has preserved for us an array of natural laboratories in which we can study life’s raw ingredients — volatiles and organics — as well as their delivery mechanisms and the prebiotic chemical processes that lead to life. We can also find on Earth direct evidence of the interactions of life with its environments, and the dramatic changes that life has undergone as the planet evolved. This can tell us much about the adaptability of life and the prospects that it might survive upheavals on other planets.

    https://science.nasa.gov/solar-syst...rth-and-has-it-evolved-elsewhere-solar-system

    Quote from Joseph Carl's post

    "The universe having a definite beginning is accepted by nearly all scientists (and atheists) today because of the cosmological and mathematical evidence. The implication of this is that there had to be a supernatural creator outside of our universe in order for our universe of time, space, and matter to exist."

    That suggests there is more than just our universe.

    I do have a question about made in his image

    On the last day of creation, God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness” (Genesis 1:26). Thus, He finished His work with a “personal touch.” God formed Adam from the dust and gave him life by sharing His own breath (Genesis 2:7).

    That gets into

    Several direct-to-consumer genetic testing companies report how much DNA a person has inherited from prehistoric humans, such as Neanderthals and Denisovans. This information is generally reported as a percentage that suggests how much DNA an individual has inherited from these ancestors. The percentage of Neanderthal DNA in modern humans is zero or close to zero in people from African populations, and is about 1 to 2 percent in people of European or Asian background. The percentage of Denisovan DNA is highest in the Melanesian population (4 to 6 percent), lower in other Southeast Asian and Pacific Islander populations, and very low or undetectable elsewhere in the world.

    Neanderthals were very early (archaic) humans who lived in Europe and Western Asia from about 400,000 years ago until they became extinct about 40,000 years ago. Denisovans are another population of early humans who lived in Asia and were distantly related to Neanderthals. (Much less is known about the Denisovans because scientists have uncovered fewer fossils of these ancient people.) The precise way that modern humans, Neanderthals, and Denisovans are related is still under study. However, research has shown that modern humans overlapped with Neanderthal and Denisovan populations for a period, and that they had children together (interbred). As a result, many people living today have a small amount of genetic material from these distant ancestors.
    https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/primer/dtcgenetictesting/neanderthaldna


    The universe is pegged at 13.5 billion years old so evolution over billions of years makes more sense to me. Looking at cell structure, the amoeba, binary fission & mitosis & the fact mankind is still evolving.
    https://www.popsci.com/humans-are-still-evolving#page-2

    Makes even more sense to me. Then there is DNA from people sharing a small percent of Neandrathal, Cro-Magnom, Denisovan are real. Doesn't strike me as impossible for mankind to evolve into what we look like now. Especially the variety of features & skin color.

    I doubt there is a supernatural being that has to be at least 13 1/2 billion years old watching over mankind. But for those that do & you are content, that is great for you. I'm not trying to change minds just explaining the best I can why I think evolution makes sense to me.
     
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