Homeless

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by Gloria Mitchell, Aug 15, 2019.

  1. Bess Barber

    Bess Barber Very Well-Known Member
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    Maybe no one agrees with @Hal Pollner , but at least he truthfully replied as to how he feels about the situation.
    When I make statements like that, my daughter tells me I just earned another Trump Award of the Week. :D
     
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  2. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Veteran Member
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    @Bobby Cole "You have apparently lived such a cushy life that you have absolutely no idea what real life is all about Hal and although I really hope that nothing happens to you, if it does, it might teach you a little more humility."

    I see your statement as a hasty generalization, aimed at @Hal Pollner . I'd be willing to bet that if asked outright in private, he would maintain his stand. Not here, though, and likely I would not either.

    The persons you cite as being made homeless due to natural disaster, by and large, did not take to the streets as might be thought. They were being cared for by FEMA, in it's own, well-intended way, however ineffective it may have been.

    The thousands of homeless harbored in, say, Los Angeles or San Francisco, "are homeless through no fault of their own" (??). Hog-feathers!
    Frank
     
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  3. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Veteran Member
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    Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I see that you are exercising yours quite well Frank.
    That said, FEMA and hurricane Katrina are rarely mentioned in the same sentence by those displaced by the hurricane unless it has some very nasty expletives attached to it.

    No one said that those homeless in the cities you mentioned are there through no fault of their own.

    I made no Hasty generalization. Hal made a statement that was completely absurd and you know it but.....he is also entitled to his opinion. I just countered it with some knowledge on the subject.

    Bye Frank.
     
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  4. Gloria Mitchell

    Gloria Mitchell Veteran Member
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    To bad since I started this thread, that I cant end it .
    Just because one person made an eyebrow lifting comment is no reason to turn it into a fued.
    I have deleted most of my comment as I fear would only make matters worse.
    I am done.
     
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  5. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Veteran Member
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    @Bobby Cole ....."Hal made a statement that was completely absurd and you know it"

    But Bobby, if I KNEW that how could I refute it's being completely absurd? I feel absurd is far too powerful a term here. However, you use descriptive wording as you see fit to, and I let you know how I feel about the position taken.

    I went back to refresh my memory: "I do not pity the Homeless...they are of their own making."

    There is no way I can accept that sentence as being absurd.
    Frank
     
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  6. Rosie Sinclair

    Rosie Sinclair Active Member
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    To some extent that is true, but not everyone has control over what happens to them.
    I was officially homeless for a few months when I left my husband. I didn't have much choice about it. I did have a roof over my head, but was living on hand-outs.
     
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  7. Patsy Faye

    Patsy Faye Veteran Member
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    I think the point being made is that Hal made a 'generalisation'
    As Rosie states - 'To some extent that is true, but not everyone has control over what happens to them'
     
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  8. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Veteran Member
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    To recant in a small way in regard to “choices”, all of life is comprised of choices. Everything we do is a choice that we make and sometimes things just do not work out the way we planned and yet, sometimes they work out even better than we planned.

    Yes, some people make lousy choices which lead them being homeless but just like the person who jumps into a pool of churning water and starts to drown, as an onlooker to the situation, we have choices to make on how to handle it.
    We can do as @Gloria Mitchell and others are doing and become part of the solution and help ourselves as well, or we can simply shrug our shoulders and do nothing at all because after all, those people made the choice to become homeless.

    Now, to say that no one lives on the streets unless they wish to be there is “absurd” and to say that there are no people on the streets who do not wish to be there is absurd as well.
    The way I take it is very simple. Help the ones who need help and at the same time to those who choose to be out of arm’s reach, leave them to their own wiles.

    The Salvation Army and every mission associated with AGRM has a program for anyone who is homeless and needs a hand up and those programs are all packed with people who seriously want change.
    If one goes into a Sally or mission thrift shop, most of the people who work there are in a program. The cooks and people who clean in the main facilities are mostly comprised of people who were / are homeless and are investing part of their lives in a program focused on change.

    The mantra of every program that every mission has is “without change, there will be no change”. Strangely enough, that saying goes for some folks who have a home and as well as those who do not.
     
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  9. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Very Well-Known Member
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    @Bobby Cole I don't think @Hal said they WANT to be homeless. He stated that their situation was of their own making, i.e., a result of choices they make/made in their lives is how I took it.
     
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  10. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Greeter
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    Take a deep breath. Let the air flow in, hold it for a while, then let the air flow out, then quit arguing. Why on earth can't we discuss homelessness without all of the drama? The poor will always be among us, and I think that includes the homeless. This might be a sensitive issue for some people, but it's unreasonable to expect everyone to shed a tear for the homeless. If the government decided to give a free house to everyone who was without a home, a large percentage of them would promptly sell it, waste the proceeds, and be back on the homeless rolls before the paint dried. A home and a white picket fence are just not high on everyone's list of things they are willing to work for.

    On the other hand, blanket statements that every homeless person deserves to be homeless are clearly wrong, but what is the value in fighting over it? Does everyone really have to be sentimental about the same things that tug at your heart? A huge amount of taxpayer money is spent on various programs that are theoretically supposed to help the poor and the homeless. Like other government programs, I have no doubt that the largest percentage of that money is utterly wasted. Countless non-profit organizations exist for the same purpose, to meet the needs of the poor and the homeless, but I have no doubt that most of the money they collect is spent on salaries and administrative costs. For that matter, the people standing at the intersection holding a sign saying they are homeless are also engaging in a scam.

    I will freely admit that very few of my tears are spent on the homeless. I am not a heartless person, and if I were in a position to be able to do something for someone who was truly in need, I would do so, and have done so at various times in the past. However, the facts are that there is nothing that you or I can do about the homeless other than making them the topic of a thread, and it seems that we can't even do that without fighting about it.

    By all means, discuss homelessness. There's nothing wrong with that topic, but getting angry with people who don't see things your way is about as helpful as most of the suggestions for helping the homeless.
     
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  11. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Veteran Member
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    @Ken Anderson
    How right you are, and how guilty I am! Even got myself ignored out of it. 'Nuff said.
    Frank
     
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  12. Yvonne Smith

    Yvonne Smith Greeter
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    We have what appears to be homeless people who wander up and down our street, or stand at the little corner store and ask for handouts, and like @Ken Anderson said, many of them will (and DO) waste any money that is handed to them and refuse help that involves having to make changes in their life.
    Often, we have offered to take one of these people claiming to have no home, food, or money, to the Downtown Rescue Mission, and they never want to go there, even though the mission would give them a place to live and help them get a job.
    The ones we see begging outside of a grocery store are usually wearing name brand tennis shoes and smoking a cigarette that comes out of a pack.
    Even if they don’t enjoy their lifestyle, they are unwilling to take any available help to change it.

    The other side of that coin is that some people DO end up homeless unwillingly and DO want to change. There was a friend that I worked with a few years back who fits into this category.
    Jennifer had serious problems with back pain, and also stomach issues, and her doctor kept her on strong pain medications, and she became addicted.
    Instead of helping Jennifer, her husband kicked her out when she started getting drugs off the street to quell her need for painkillers.
    She had no place to go, her husband would not even let her come into the house to see their little girls, and she was both devastated and destitute.

    Jennifer went into a treatment program because she really did want to stop taking drugs, and she wanted to get her life back. She started going to NA meetings, and was turning her life around, but was still homeless when she was released from the drug treatment program, and because of her physical problems, she could not just go and find a regular job and get a place to live.
    She stayed with me for a while , found a job delivering newspapers that she could do from her little car, and eventually moved on. I wish that was the end of this story, but it is not.

    Even though she was now able to at least spend some time with her kids, her husband had found another girlfriend, and her life was forever changed, and her battle with drugs was still ungoing.
    The end of my story is that she apparently had a relapse, disappeared, and was found along the side of the highway between here and Birmingham, dead, and the autopsy showed drugs in her system.

    Jennifer was not even 30 when she died, her children will forever not have the mother that adored them, and I think that all of this could have been prevented if she had been allowed to seek treatment and live at home with her children.
    Somewhere, in the archives of this forum, is the story of her sad death that i shared when she was found dead and abandoned. Some of you may even remember it.
    This is the picture that I made for her mother from Jennifers Facebook photos. she was a wonderful, loving mother to her children, and a good friend to me, and I still miss her when I see someone who reminds me of Jennifer.

    7ED6B27B-7B16-41F9-90A4-FE3B22F6C557.jpeg
     
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  13. Patsy Faye

    Patsy Faye Veteran Member
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    Yes - you simply cannot generalise - beautiful picture
     
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  14. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Very Well-Known Member
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    Such a sad story, @Yvonne Smith. A waste of a young life.
     
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  15. Gloria Mitchell

    Gloria Mitchell Veteran Member
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    At the SA today doing my volunteer work in the office.Victor a 'Client'as we call them was back in today wanting his allotment of baby wipes. He does this everyday. Victor has mental illness, but insists on staying clean. He uses them to bathe with most of the time. He is always neat an orderly in his clothes and that little bow tie. He always has his small calculator with him- he thinks is cell phone.
    Today I learned he does bathe at times at the recreation center. We have a shower at SA do not know why he will not use there.
    He spends his day at the center or at the Library outside next to the building - grooming himself.
    But what made me cry all the way home- was finding out Victor spends his nights at a construction site- in the port a potty with the door locked. The only place he feels safe at night.
    I can not imagine spending more than 3 mintues in a port a potty...even unused.
     
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