The last thing we want to do is clean out the cartilage. There are sites on the failures of knee surgeries. I've read some and I'm convinced more and more the last time I was in hospital for staph infection and they "cleaned out the knee", it caused more damage. If they had only stopped at the 2.5 months of abx IV drugs. More damage done my doctors and hospitals and out of our control most of the time.
I am glad that your article points out the requirement of vitamin C in collagen formation, @Joy Martin. It is absolutely essential, and although it has been shown (as far as I know) that more vitamin C leads to FASTER collagen and cartilage formation, I believe it to be so. Carbohydrates are also required and may be deficient in true low or carb-free diets. Here is a citation from the Britannica website that reviews it. I didn't put in the link as it is long, but here is the relevant portion: Joint metabolism and nutrition The metabolism and nutrition of the fibrous capsule and ligaments are similar to that of fibrous tissues elsewhere. Their blood supply is relatively small, indicating a low rate of metabolic changes. Unlike skin, for example, they heal slowly if injured. The metabolism of articular cartilage is primarily dependent upon that of its cells (chondrocytes). Carbohydrate metabolism in these cells is similar to that of cells elsewhere and is unaffected by age. The oxygen consumption of the chondrocytes, on the other hand, decreases with age once the cells have matured. All the evidence suggests that the intracellular combustion is of glucose and protein, in that order of preference, rather than of fat. Sulfur passes from the blood to the synovial fluid and from there to the chondrocytes. From these it is transferred to the matrix to help to form chondroitin sulfate and keratosulfate molecules, the main constituents of the cartilaginous material. Chondroitin sulfate could be described as a sulfonated form of hyaluronic acid, the characteristic constituent of synovial fluid. Its presence in the matrix of the cartilage, but not in the synovial fluid, shows that the chondrocytes are necessary for its formation. After the second decade of life, the proportion of chondroitin sulfate falls and that of keratosulfate rises, as would be expected in view of the corresponding diminution of metabolic activity of the cells. Excepting the articular cartilages, disks, and menisci, all other tissues of synovial joints are nourished directly by the blood vessels. The excepted parts are nourished indirectly by the synovial fluid. This is distributed over the surface of the articulating cartilage by the movements of the joint. The need for keeping joints healthy by frequent exercise of all of them is thus apparent. Michael A. MacConaill
A curious thing happened with my doctor. I was hit by a car ~30 years ago. The only permanent damage was a torn meniscus in the left knee. It was a long gradual recovery, but only bothered me afterward when I went up steps or a ladder. Not really a pain, just a noticeable tugging sensation. My current Dr. is always searching for a problem to fix, so he ordered an MRI, and said what was wrong could be easily fixed with arthroscopic surgery. They would trim the cartilage and smooth it out around the tear. He was rather insistent on this, and guaranteed I could be done with this problem forever. I put it off because it didn't really bother me. Next visit, only a year later, Dr. said he was wrong about the surgery, that I should put it off until I couldn't stand the pain. I didn't ask why, but looks like I might have dodged a bullet. Then I started on a walking routine, about a mile every evening, and the knee started to bother me, but worse was one hip (I forget which hip now). Enough to almost stop the routine. So I studied walking mechanics. Sure enough I was walking with my feet too close together. I practiced walking correctly, and all the pain gradually went away. Sorry for the long story... My point is: Doctors can be wrong, and some will admit it. And check out your walking mechanics. Don't pay attention to runners' gait recommendations. Running is not the same thing as walking.
@Nancy Hart One of the most informative posts originating from personal experience to be found! Walking mechanics: I see where pain originating in some body part as a result of supporting it's weight often causes the individual experiencing it to "shift" weight distribution away from the point of pain, most often unknowingly. The parts then carrying this unexpected added weight, often rebel in their own way....... My wife notes that many women walk forward with a rocking side-to-side swaying of the upper body: she believes that is most often the result of hip joint pain. Perhaps women are more susceptible to hip joint difficulties? Perhaps anatomically-induced: the pelvis is slightly wider, flaring the hip joints outward, that "curvaceous" look we guys appreciate so well. From an engineering standpoint, it appears that the hip joint function would be better accommodated if the ball-socket were located in the bottom of the pelvic structure, rather than off to the side. Recent videos I've seen of remarkably humanoid-operating robots seem to have "hip" joints so designed. But, such construction would make impossible 180-degree splay outwards to the side, or forward and backward, of the legs in what is known as a "split". Frank
A doctors are wrong a lot of the time, I've gotten so distrustful of them since the 80's when I started to do so much of my own work and got damage from their work.
@ Joy Martin From the Livestrong article in Post # 29: Glycine and proline are abundant in gelatin, a food substance derived from animal collagen. I started having a small amount of gelatin before meals a few days ago. It was a suggested remedy for O A knees on Pinterest. Also, a tbsp before breakfast and lunch of a mixture of honey, raisins, flax, sesame, pumpkin (subbing sunflower) seeds and unflavored gelatin. Not sure if you get the benefit of unflavored gelatin if you mix it in dry, so I'm having a small amount of prepared gelatin, along with the other ingredients. It's been less than a week of trying these things.
I don't think so, I use Great Lakes which has 21 amino acids in it including Proline and it's said to add to liquid, so I am back at adding 1 tsp to my morning bullet coffee that I make up and some times add 1 tsp to a bowl of soup I make. Read up on Great Lakes, green canister, lots of Amazon reviews and I was using it for a couple yrs and then I ended up in hospital and rehabs with knee infection and fell off my routines. You can buy separate Proline capsules and use as directed on empty stomach. Aminos are best taken on empty stomach.
and make sure the shoes you wear are good if you have problems. Sometimes orthotics are required but not often if the shoes are well-designed. I once had a female friend who was a runner and her knees were all screwed up. She went to a podiatrist and was prescribed orthotics. She told me it was like she had an entirely new body, especially her legs and hips.
True and one can find good orthotics for under $50 as I'm not prepared to spend $300 or so, don't know if that's necessary but who knows. My grandkids have been thru them and I buy mine on Amazon.
I think it depends on what is wrong and how bad it is. The lady described had tried generic ones and they were helpful but the prescribed ones changed her life. She was a very active person, though.
@Joy Martin: I don't think so.... You seem to be commenting on someone's post, without @and their screen name. If you were addressing me, I didn't ask for advice. Giving instructions and telling others to "read up on..." keep in mind that it's fine to tout something you believe in, but setting yourself up as an expert and telling others what they need to do, as if you're a doctor, prescribing a treatment - pretty ridiculous.
I don't know who I was addressing and does it truly matter. I apologize and I hope you feel better. Maybe I got confused with a comment from Yvonne Smith....
Been taking a combination tablet of the two daily for about six months now, 10 & 2 mg each, misleading labeling, foil sealed pouches say take one tablet twice daily, outside cover of box says take two tablets twice daily; been taking one a day. They cost a buck for 30 tabs, 99-Cent Store. About two months ago I added Turmeric powder, sprinkled on my daily veggies while frying-up. During this time, my shoulder pain has worsened noticeably, knee pain about the same, finger joints definitely getting worse. Should I take more? Or is this all hokum? Frank
It seems to work for my cat but I tried the glucosamine/chondroitin tablets myself for a few months when I first started noticing arthritis in my finger joints, but before it was actually diagnosed as arthritis, and I didn't notice any effect at all. That was a couple of years ago. Now my finger joints are much worse, so much that the arthritis is even visible in some of my fingers, and have been thinking of trying it again.
@Ken Anderson Thing is, with all these remedial products, worsening of symptoms occurs over months and months, rather than days; so, it becomes moot to consider that "maybe" the products helped, not knowing the worsening would not have been even worse without them. It's a "double-speak" kind of thing. My arthritis took decades to get this bad, very gradual process, yet I've known folks whose fingers, even toes, became grotesquely deformed in a much shorter time. Try to imagine the combination of symptoms which not only making grasping with the fingers painful, but also I must live with numbness in them, whereas grasping force can no longer be felt, and I either crush things I shouldn't, or drop them because of not gripping tightly enough. But, I realize full-well, things overall could be far worse, so still consider myself pretty lucky! Frank