July 28, 1945: B-25 Bomber Crashes Into Empire State Building

Discussion in 'History & Geography' started by Ken Anderson, Sep 16, 2018.

  1. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    A bomber crashed into the Empire State Building in on Saturday, July 28, 1945. Fourteen people were killed, and its fuel tank exploded, but the building did not fall. The building was open for business on many floors the following Monday.

    See: New York Daily News
    See: Wikipedia

    empire-state-building.jpg
     
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  2. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Supreme Member
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    @Ken Anderson
    Well, here we go again, (maybe)! I recalled the incident you describe, never knew details, and the photo you posted is exquisite, in showing details of skyscraper floor construction. No doubt, the architectural technology available when the Twin Towers were built allowed somewhat less stalwart construction practices. But still, I have been troubled ever since 9-11, unable to understand how enough combustible material existed in the buildings to burn with adequate intensity to weaken the structures to the point of collapse. I think the Empire State Building was constructed about the time of the Golden Gate, 1930s? Possibly even supported by WPA.

    A throwback to the Murrah FBI Building in OK-City...... where a famed ordnance expert submitted his analysis of the building's bombing to Sen. Trent Lott, who chaired the Congressional investigation of the event. The Honorable (?) Sen. Lott shelved the report. I have a copy.

    "Brigadier General Benton K. Partin, U. S. Air Force, retired, has 25 years experience in explosives and ballistic weapons design and testing. General Partin also served as the Commander of the Air Force Armament Technology Laboratory.

    Partin has this to say:

    "When I first saw the picture of the truck bomb's asymmetrical damage to the Federal building in Oklahoma, my immediate reaction was that the pattern of damage would have been technically impossible without supplementary demolition charges at some of the reinforced concrete bases inside the building, a standard demolition technique.

    "For a simplistic blast truck bomb, of the size and composition reported, to be able to reach out on the order of 60 feet and collapse a reinforced column base the size of column A7 is beyond credulity."

    See: https://100777.com/node/106

    So, if Partin was right, and he presented Expert Opinion from several demolition experts in his report, Timothy McVey might in reality have been a very minor "player"..........

    Frank
     
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  3. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    I don't disagree, Frank, but that would be fodder for the conspiracy section.
     
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  4. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Supreme Member
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    @Ken Anderson
    I see. I've always hated the concept of "conspiracies", though, as the very thought of such expression absolves the perpetrating faction of guilt. IF such faction exists, of course. I've never felt that the term "conspiracy" alluded to a truly covert act being foisted upon an unsuspecting audience, though. A "conspiracy" to me involves an act perpetrated by a many-faceted group trying to cause extreme grief to another group.

    IOW, others beyond the scope of an event affecting many either contributed to the event, or did not. So, no conspiracy.

    Conspiracy:
    " a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful: "
     
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  5. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    It's also defined as "the act of plotting or conspiring." Two people can conspire, and many conspiracies are not theoretical. By the way, I am sure you do realize that by disputing the location, you have taken this thread a couple of more posts off-topic. A discussion of what is or is not a conspiracy, if it needs to be taken up at all, should be taken up in the conspiracies category, not here.

    This thread is about the B-25 bomber crashing into the Empire State Building in 1945.

    At the time, the Empire State Building was the tallest building in the world. The crash occurred near the end of World War II. The pilot, Lt. Col. William Franklin Smith Jr., was flying a handful of servicemen home. He had logged a thousand combat hours during the war and had earned the Air Medal, the Distinguished Flying Cross, and the Croix de Guerre, as a member of the 457th Bomb Group.

    After crashing through the steel and stone exterior of the building, the gasoline tanks exploded. Smith and his two passengers were killed instantly, and eleven people in the building also died, most of the women who were working with the National Catholic Welfare Conference. Most of them were burned beyond recognition.

    A 19-year-old elevator operator broke her pelvis, back, and neck when the plane sliced the cables to the elevator, causing it to fall from the 79th floor to the sub-basement. She survived.

    Source: Time Magazine
     
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  6. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Supreme Member
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    One thing I might add to the conversation is that the “skin” of a B-25 was made of aluminum, which, unlike the magnesium- aluminum alloys used in present day aircraft, doesn’t explode when overheated.
    Together with much better construction of the Empire State Building than any present day buildings and the fact that yesterday’s aircraft didn’t FULLY self destruct, the impact was less devastating.

    When I was injured and grounded in the Nam, I tried building a BBQ setup out of aircraft sheet metal.
    It didn’t react well with hot charcoals. Bang bang, pop pop.....fzzzzzzzzz pop
     
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  7. Joe Riley

    Joe Riley Supreme Member
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    Thank, Bobby for the article and pictures. What amazed me was the amount of information, that was released only TWO DAYS after the incident. A very in depth report, that filled in many of the details. Also, I was surprised to see reporters, and workers casually standing near the opening (on the 79th floor) near over turned, wooden barricades....without hard hats and any kind of protective gear. Kinda scary, in itself.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
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  8. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Supreme Member
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    The architecture used was different as building the Empire State Building in 1972 or whenever the Twin towers were built would have been prohibitively expensive. Also, since the ESB was experimental at the time it was built, everything was overbuilt to ensure against collapse. I don't think the ESB would have collapsed as the Twin Towers did since it wasn't built as a series of concrete "pancakes" hanging from a central core.
     
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  9. Joe Riley

    Joe Riley Supreme Member
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    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
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  10. Hal Pollner

    Hal Pollner Veteran Member
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    The Empire State Building was completed in the Great Depression year of 1931.

    Other great American works of Civil Engineering were completed during the Depression, such as the Hoover Dam, the Golden Gate Bridge, and others, which are proving their durability by lasting 80 years or more with no degradation.

    Workers were more conscientious about their work in those days, realizing that if they slipped up, there would be others waiting to trade their places in the Bread Lines for important, well-paying work in the building trades.

    I also think that the World Trade Center did not use the traditional Steel I-Beams in its construction as in the Empire State Building.

    Hal
     
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  11. Lon Tanner

    Lon Tanner Supreme Member
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    I was in New York a few days after with a group of Cub Scouts from Paterson, New Jersey. It was a hazy day but you could still see the plane from street level stuck in the building.
     
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  12. Lon Tanner

    Lon Tanner Supreme Member
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    I was not there when the plane actually hit but I was there shortly thereafter. I was 11 years old and had come to NYC with Cub Scouts from Paterson, New Jersey to see a show. It was a overcast day and we could not see the plane stuck in the building. The weather is what caused the crash I believe.
     
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  13. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Supreme Member
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  14. Bess Barber

    Bess Barber Veteran Member
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    Wow....how interesting! I had no idea.
     
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  15. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Supreme Member
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    @Bess Barber

    One of those long-forgotten incidents......The B-25 was by no means a tiny aircraft:

    [​IMG]

    It was a bomber, certainly large enough to cause catastrophic damage to a tall building, especially when flown into the side up near the top. The Empire State was not structurally damaged, except for a 20-foot hole torn into it's north wall. One of the plane's engines was found at the bottom of an elevator shaft. Another elevator, occupied only by it's Operator, a lady, fell 75 floors to it's bottom; she survived the fall, that ranking as the highest fall survived in an elevator.

    The fire which erupted in the building, remember, those planes carried gasoline, much more flammable than jet fuel, was extinguished in 40 minutes! This all adds fuel (no pun intended!) to the speculation about the Trade Center Towers.......which I shan't go into.
    Frank
     
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