The Atrocity Of Abortion And Those Who Support It

Discussion in 'Politics & Government' started by Joseph Carl, Jun 30, 2019.

  1. Joseph Carl

    Joseph Carl Member
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    Since the Supreme Court's passage of Roe vs Wade in 1973, we've documented the medical/surgical killing of 61 million babies in the United States. And though the rate of this killing is declining with time, it still stands at about 900,000 a year. In the state of New York, 1 out of 3 pregnancies are terminated. The people supporting this abortion practice have successfully marketed it as a woman's rights' issue, labeling it under the politically correct terms of pro-choice or womens' reproductive rights.

    Our country has legally sanctioned the idea that a baby in the womb is not a "person" (protected by the 14th amendment). Thus, the preference and convenience of a woman outranks the protection of life or liberty of any fetus or unborn baby. This disqualification of a human being's classification as a person worthy of life and protection goes against all biological definitions and logical moral standards.

    While outspoken advocates insist that a woman should have rights over her own body, they hypocritically neglect the rights of the babies that are NOT their bodies - these babies with their own DNA genetic makeup, functioning hearts, organs, limbs, minds, and (potential) souls. Every excuse to dehumanize the unborn baby is logically futile, whether assessing biological standards or other factors of dependency, size, maturity, or social value. In other words, society can choose to define a human life as unimportant, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a human life. It seems that our nation has chosen a significant cultural value of convenience over morality - that is, by protecting sexual freedom and adult convenience at the expense of sacrificing innocent life. And while many of us find this disheartening, it should come as no surprise since the widespread acceptance of evolution inevitably teaches the lesser value of all life or our accountability to God's moral values.

    I used to support abortion - until I recently studied it. Now, it's apparent to me that the baby's exit from the mother's womb is not a defensible line for categorizing whether it's a viable human being with personhood. To anyone who considers it honestly, this should be evident just from a biological, scientific perspective. But for a Christian, the additional scriptural support for this is clear - that God forms us and knows us as a person the day we're conceived in the womb. There are several Bible versus indicating this, with Psalm 139:13-16 being a good example:

    For You created my inmost being; You knit me together in my mother’s womb. I praise You because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Your works are wonderful, I know that full well. My frame was not hidden from You when I was made in the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, Your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in Your book before one of them came to be.

    Given the 6th commandment to not murder, can any Christian defend the intentional killing of an innocent, helpless, unborn baby that God forms, knows, and loves? And yet, almost 60% of Americans support abortion, including a large number of professing Christians. How can this be? Is it ignorance of the facts, is it a passive yielding to cultural pressure, or is it a willful choice of sexual freedom and convenience over God's moral standards?

    It seems that people everywhere are outraged by senseless gun shootings, murders, and tragic accidents that kill thousands of innocent lives each year, yet the victim numbers pale in comparison to the innocent lives of babies purposefully killed each year. How do you justify a social value system that declares it a felony offense to disturb or take the eggs of certain animal species but legally and morally right to kill a human baby in a similar developmental condition?

    So why should a bunch of old retirees here care about this hot button issue, and is there anything we can even do to change it? I'd respond with two answers, starting with why it matters to all citizens of the country, not just to individuals involved with this process.

    Our nation's founding fathers expressed repeatedly that Christian morality and virtue were a necessary foundation for the new republic and that God's divine intervention and blessings were essential to the nation's peace and prosperity. They recognized that nations rise and fall according to God's will and that America's success relied upon our acknowledgment of him and adherence to his moral laws. Let Sodom and Gomorrah be a reminder of how God deals with a nation that promotes the killing of innocent children (and widespread acceptance of homosexuality). Such sins don't go unpunished forever. While every morally decent person should care about the mass killing of innocent babies, Christians in particular have an obligation to fight this sin that threatens our entire country with God's wrath and judgment.

    Real care requires some type of action, and I can suggest 3 tactics for doing so. The most difficult and engaging option is to volunteer work outside of an abortion clinic, contacting and counseling women who arrive there in a distraught, uncertain condition. Many of them change their minds about killing their babies when confronted with a compassionate person who explains the value of their child and the alternative assistance programs available to them. The few bold activists doing this get the incredible satisfaction of literally saving lives and often interacting with those affected lives afterwards. Another (easier) option is to simply raise the issue with friends and children still subject to influence. Having our own moral standards is great, but it's our responsibility to pass on these standards to the future generations of this country - another principle our founding fathers made clear in their writings. Finally, we must use our vote responsibly.

    As the political season grows nearer, everyone should consider this: roughly 84% of liberal Democrats said in a 2018 (Pew) survey that abortion should be legal in all or most cases, compared with only 29% in the GOP. I understand that it's hard to support leaders that don't agree with all of our values or demonstrate ideal personality traits. But, everyone who cares about right and wrong, and especially Christians who believe in God's providence and guidance over our nation, should consider the abortion stance of candidates as one of their critical deciding values. As much as we rightfully worry about the economy, budget, health care, military strength, foreign policy, gun control, and other social issues, it is God's view and blessings on this country that matter most. Might I suggest, to my Christian friends at least, that our sanctioned murdering of 2500 babies a day in this country just might be a critical concern to our Divine overseer? Your vote supports or opposes this national sin with each candidate you select.

    I expect non-Christians won't agree with my religious perspectives, but does anyone really want to defend the killing of innocent human babies? Does any pro-choice advocate want to justify why partial control over her body outweighs the complete life of another human's body? Does anyone want to counter the consensus biological evidence that the growing baby is a human life - an innocent, helpless one that deserves higher respect and protection than any bird, reptile, or animal? Does anyone want to justify the hypocrisy of multiple federal and state laws that impose severe criminal penalties for injuring or killing a fetus of any age, yet specifically exempt a mother from killing the same fetus herself with an abortion? Does anyone want to justify why intrauterine surgery is often done to save the valuable life of a baby in one medical facility while the brains are suctioned out to legally kill another similarly developed baby in another facility?

    These should be rhetorical questions for a legal and cultural standard that has become both illogical and immoral madness. The number one cause of death in the United States is abortion, and those who support it are either sadly ignorant on the issue or seriously lacking in Godly moral values.

    For anyone still undecided on the issue or lacking some warranted passion for it, here's a good video I highly recommend. If you'll skip the unrelated beginning by starting at 5:15 minutes, along with the end service, you'll find a powerful 45 minute sermon well worth your time.

     
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  2. Bess Barber

    Bess Barber Very Well-Known Member
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    My daughter got pregnant at 16 from a 15 year old. I was devastated. She gave up a big part of her teen years to be a wonderful mother. My grandson, Israel, is now 11 and the joy of our life. And the 15 year old boy grew into a stellar dad. My grandson lives back and forth between the two of them. We are all so very thankful she didn't get an abortion.

    However, supportive parents and a boyfriend who does his share isn't what all girls get. I can't judge their decision regardless of whether I agree with it or not.
     
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  3. Beth Gallagher

    Beth Gallagher Very Well-Known Member
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    ^^ This. It is not my decision to make or my judgement to pass.
     
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  4. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Very Well-Known Member
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    My only objection is when they claim abortion involves the mother's body and having control over it. It is not her body that is involved in an abortion. It is the body and the life of another human being.
     
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  5. Peter Renfro

    Peter Renfro Well-Known Member
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    That right there negates any opinion you have on the matter. I am glad that you believe the big Sky Daddy is setting your rules for you. Please feel free to follow his rules to the letter. However do not attempt to force your spiritual beliefs on others.
    What the hell right do you and the other talibanvangelists have to dictate anything to the rest of us?
    Please feel free never to have an abortion. I will support you in that one hundred percent.
    What I and millions of others will not support you in is attempting to control others lives on the basis of what I and billions of other know is a fable!
    My assumption,is that you are a Republican, the party of small unobtrusive government. One of the stated ideals of your party is a commitment to personal freedoms. Except of course in this instance. Glaring hypocrisy right there!!!!
     
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  6. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Veteran Member
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    The gentleman wrote his opinion and the reasons for his opinion and what gives him the right to that opinion is that he has the freedom to do so.

    Now, I do ask this question: What gives you the right to attack him and his point of view other than the freedom of speech which you obviously so wholeheartedly abuse whenever possible?
    Such name calling and attacks might have been an honored thing in your prior setting as a guest of the people, but I am deeply troubled that you have not learned how to cope with society as of yet.
     
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  7. Yvonne Smith

    Yvonne Smith Greeter
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    Just so that you know, @Peter Renfro (and everyone else); I have reported this post to @Ken Anderson for Admin to deal with. Not only is it rude and abusive , it is also totally off-topic.
    The thread is about the Supreme Court’s decision about abortion, and discussion of that issue. It is NOT about whether a person with a Christian view point has the right to an opinion or not.
    Personal attacks are simply not permitted in this forum, and your rude response was a vulgar personal attack , and on a person who had not said anything to you personally , to even invite the attack.
    You have been banned for this kind of rudeness before, but it appears that it didn’t affect your behavior in the least, because here you are, rudely making personal attacks instead of thoughtfully discussing the issue, yet again.
     
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  8. Peter Renfro

    Peter Renfro Well-Known Member
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    Tolerance reigns supreme in this right wing world of yours. There was no personal attack, just a rebuttal to what I consider to be insulting to any one that does not toe the Christian line. Please spell out for me what I attacked? The OP chose to post on a controversial topic. Should he not expect push back from a person who vehemently disagrees with the very foundation of his assertion?
    I thought that us libtards were the snowflakes.
    So now yall gonna run to the hall monitor, Ken Ken,Pete is a big meany! Punish him, burn him at the stake! We cannot have discord in this lovely little Utopia we have created for our selves.
     
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  9. Peter Renfro

    Peter Renfro Well-Known Member
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    And just what the heck is that guest of the people crack supposed to mean? I never a guest of the people, unless you mean the four years of honorable service in the United States Marine Corp. I would hesitate saying that I was a guest though. I did some really unusual things that guests aren't normally expected to do!
     
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  10. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Veteran Member
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    Ah, I do see that you can dish it out, but taking it is quite another story.

    By the bye, so sorry to anyone and everyone who really wants to continue with the OP for I did and have been totally off topic.
    That said, whether I do or do not accept abortion as a means for population control or whatever, I find that the writer of the OP has indeed brought forward some very interesting aspects for study and is, if I may admit, far better written than I could have produced.
     
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  11. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Greeter
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    Presumably, you have reasons for whatever it is that you believe. Putting aside, for a moment, the fact that opposition to abortion is no more religious in nature than opposition to any other type of murder, or theft, or any of the other things that are prohibited in the Scriptures, a Christian has as much of a right to hold and to express an opinion as anyone else, as long as it is done in a civil manner. Whatever the reason for your hatred, you would like to live in a world where only those opinions that you agree with are allowed to be expressed publicly, and that anyone who doesn't hold to your standards, whatever they are, should shut up. Of course, a genuine Christian's opinions are going to be influenced by his religion, just as your opinions are influenced by your hatred for religion, and by whatever it is that you do believe in. Atheism is as much a religion as Christianity, and many atheists are as fervent in their hatred of anything that opposes their beliefs as are the most radical Muslims, as evidenced by your reaction to Christianity. Whatever the reason for your hatred, please don't play it out here. If you can't have a civil discussion, this might not be the appropriate part of the forum for you.
     
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  12. Beth Gallagher

    Beth Gallagher Very Well-Known Member
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    I seldom join in abortion debates because they get heated and no one's mind is changed. I believe in freedom of choice. An unwanted pregnancy usually results in an unwanted child; sad in any case. I believe it is a matter between the woman and her doctor, period. In the end, it is HER body and HER life, and it is not up to me or any court to decide for her.

    It amazes me that the fervent right-to-lifers would kill clinic workers to further their agenda. Seems that this "right to life" is not extended to all. I don't see these people offering to raise or provide for the child themselves; instead they bomb and murder and terrorize. Right to life, indeed. What allows anyone to make those choices for others?? Maybe people need to back off and stay out of things that don't directly involve them.
     
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  13. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Very Well-Known Member
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    That responds to my point. It IS her body, but not her life. The child would be in all likelihood wanted by someone, as there are people clamoring for infants to adopt all the time. I am not an avid opponent of early abortion, but I am not a supporter either. I have known a number of women who chose to abort a pregnancy and suffered remorse for the decision for many years afterward. I even knew one woman who had 5 abortions, then developed thyroid and uterine cancer and could never have children . She became a very bitter woman, and perhaps still is. I haven't had contact with her for years. Abortion also raises the likelihood of developing breast cancer, just as miscarriage does. This was shown in a study done by a pro-abortion researcher in New York, I believe. This research was never followed up or repeated, as it yielded a result that didn't support the opinion of the researcher. In the large study
    ( I believe over 1,000 women were studied), the incidence of breast cancer after abortion was increased by 50%. The researcher stated that women considering abortion should not take her data into account in their decision. If it had been anything else, this researcher would have been clamoring to ban whatever it was as a threat to women's health, but abortion was not to be considered.
     
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  14. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Greeter
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    I think it's been a couple of decades since that happened. It was the work of one person, and he was arrested for murder.
     
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  15. Beth Gallagher

    Beth Gallagher Very Well-Known Member
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    Wow, you've known a lot of people who've had abortions. In my entire life, I am not aware of anyone I know who has had an abortion. I have never heard of the increased cancer risk and if I was interested enough, I'd look that up. Personally, I had a miscarriage during the 1st trimester of my first pregnancy; are my chances of cancer increased due to no fault of my own?

    How would you like it if the courts could force YOU to do something to your body that you didn't want? Again, this is not for random "others" to decide.

    After I had my two sons, I decided I wanted a tubal ligation and went into the hospital for the procedure. The operation could not be done WITHOUT MY HUSBAND'S CONSENT. What the actual hell??? You may rest assured that I behaved badly that day. (And this was in the 1980s...not the stone age.) Of course my husband was in full agreement since we both agreed that we had our family. But it was galling to me that I was treated as anyone's property.
     
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