Voter Fraud

Discussion in 'Politics & Government' started by Martin Alonzo, Jun 26, 2020 at 10:09 PM.

  1. Martin Alonzo

    Martin Alonzo Veteran Member
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  2. Dwight Ward

    Dwight Ward Member
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    Martin, IMHO I think this is an exceptional case and does not prove that mail-in voter fraud is common. I've looked and looked for the article I read that discusses this and cannot find it. The thrust of the article is to show how difficult it is to process even one fraudulent vote, much less do them en masse. It's illustrative that these fraudulent votes in New Jersey were fairly easily caught.
    Interestingly, the Republicans' idea that the less people who vote, the more it benefits them, may not be true at all. Some people who've looked at the situation are of the opinion that lower voter counts benefit neither party over the other, so the Republicans' efforts to curtail voter participation may, in fact, gain them nothing..
     
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  3. Dwight Ward

    Dwight Ward Member
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    Alas, I have one other point to make. This guy Michael Jackson's efforts resulted in what? Six or seven fraudulent votes or possibly less, much less than the hundreds or thousands it would take to really distort an election. I read six or seven articles pertaining to this from you search suggestion before I came to this conclusion, but if I'm not right about this please correct me.
     
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  4. Martin Alonzo

    Martin Alonzo Veteran Member
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    @Dwight Ward I posted a google search so you have to go to the second or third page to get to the real story as google will try and cover up anything negative about democrats.
    As far as I know about any American election it only takes one vote to change the result .
    Here is more follow ups.
    Potential Voter Fraud in Paterson, NJ on https://www.nj.com/passaic-county/2...erson-councilman-and-councilman-elect.htmlEve of Election

    https://planetprinceton.com/2020/06...-allegedly-involved-in-mail-in-ballot-scheme/

    https://theridgewoodblog.net/4-demo...-2-others-arrested-on-election-fraud-charges/

    https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud/search?state=NJ&combine=&year=&case_type=All&fraud_type=All&pag
     
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  5. Dwight Ward

    Dwight Ward Member
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    I've looked at three of the four articles you site. The first would not come up for me for some reason.I quote from one:

    "An investigation by the Attorney General’s Office of Public Integrity and Accountability began when the U.S. Postal Inspection Service alerted the Attorney General’s Office that hundreds of mail-in ballots were found in a mailbox in Paterson. Numerous additional ballots were found in a mailbox in nearby Haledon."

    These were blank, unfilled-out forms, were they not? The article doesn't say that specifically but I'm assuming it.

    The most likely form of mail-in fraud is faking the vote of a "bogus" person. However these bogus people have to be registered to vote or the whole thing doesn't work. So, what usually happens is to try and fake the vote of a dead person. For that to work the fraudster must know a few things. He must know that the dead person is registered to vote. He must know that the dead person has not been reported as such to the election board or party and removed from the roles as a valid voter. Depending on the location, he may even need to know the dead person's social security number to validate the vote. All this is doable for only a small number of votes, but unlikely to happen for large numbers.

    I grant your point that one vote can change an election, but the kind of fraud that Trump is trying to terrify us with can hardly occur. The hundreds, thousands or millions of votes it would take to change a national election cannot happen.

    I've looked into several of the cases of mail-in fraud sited in these articles. They all involve tiny numbers of votes unlikely to affect anything but very local elections..

    Martin, I'll grant you a second point, also. ANY voter fraud is unacceptable. But Trump's warnings on this are ridiculous.

    .
     
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  6. Dwight Ward

    Dwight Ward Member
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    Martin, have you tried DuckDuckGo for a search engine? As far as I can I try to avoid all things Microsoft or Google because I'm aware of their spying. I recently installed a paid VPN service for this very reason, even though I really can't afford too many extras on my computer.
     
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  7. Martin Alonzo

    Martin Alonzo Veteran Member
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    I have a free VPN from Proton and I also use many different search engines. It is easy to find register voters and being a politico party you have the money to do any fraud you want. Like Judicial Watch has found some 2.5 million extra registrants on voting rolls and trying to force by suing them to clean up the rolls. They are fighting to not do it why? Trump has said a lot of thing that they claim are not true but in time they find they were.
    Judicial Watch Uncovers Millions on Dirty Voter Rolls ...
    judicialwatch.org/.../judicial-watch-uncovers-millions-on-dirty-voter-rolls
     
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  8. Dwight Ward

    Dwight Ward Member
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    Martin, we are probably not going to resolve this disagreement between us about voter fraud but I'm glad we can have that disagreement without rancour..

    As far as the VPNs go, I tried several free ones and some of the less expensive paid ones. All interfered with my Amazon Prime movie streaming service which I've become pretty dependent on. Netflix has the same trouble with VPNs so I really don't have a choice there. I eventually had to buy the most expensive one - ExpressVPN. They claim to be the best and maybe they are but they do work without a flaw with my movie streaming.. My paid AVG antivirus also screwed with my VPN so I had to abandon it and go back to Window's free antivirus program, which I've learned is much better than any of their previous versions..

    I wonder if any other people spend as much time as I do keeping their computer relatively clean and fast and private. Most people I know just let things go as Microsoft wants them. That's not for me though. Do you spend much time tweaking things on your computer?
     
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  9. Peter Renfro

    Peter Renfro Very Well-Known Member
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    Dwight once you have been here a while, you will see that Martin gets most of his news from Qanon and other equally impressive opinion outlets. Very rarely will you find a link to an actual journalism resources.
    There are very few cases of voter fraud, not enough to be statistically significant. To date most election fraud ,most recently NC has been driven by Republican actors.
     
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  10. Martin Alonzo

    Martin Alonzo Veteran Member
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    1 In 5 Mail-In Ballots Rejected As 4 Charged With Fraud In ...
    zerohedge.com/political/1-5-mail-ballots-rejected-4-charged-fraud-new...

    [/paste:font]More than 3,190 votes, 19% of the total ballots cast, were disqualified by the board of elections. Due to the pandemic, Paterson’s election was done through vote-by-mail. Community organizations, such as the city’s NAACP chapter, are calling for the entire election to be invalidated. Mail-in ballots have long been acknowledged by voting experts to be more
     
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  11. Dwight Ward

    Dwight Ward Member
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    According to this last posted article, my conclusion that mail-in voter fraud can only happen in very small numbers is wrong. Martin's concerns are more valid than I previously thought.
     
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  12. Martin Alonzo

    Martin Alonzo Veteran Member
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    Thank You @Dwight Ward for at lease checking out what I put up I think we are all on the same side just see it from different angles
     
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  13. Peter Renfro

    Peter Renfro Very Well-Known Member
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    This was an exceptionally clumsy attempt and it turnsout that only about 100 ballots were rejected as fraudulent. The rest had mis matched signatures or other procedural problems.
    My take away on this was that the system worked and the bad ballots were caught, showing the system works.
    Please dig in a bit to "zerohedge" read a few articles and then give me your impression of that outlet as a bona fide news source. Research the principals and the fact that all articles are ascribed to Tyler Durdin, a pseudonym that all the staff writers post under.
    In other words an echo chamber for the far right.
     
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  14. Dwight Ward

    Dwight Ward Member
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    Peter,
    I was somewhat aware of 4chan and 8chan and Nazi and white supremacist sites in general. I check out a lot of different sources for news and information and do not just rely on liberal or progressive (or neutral) sites .Because of your post I checked QAnon out. They are an entirely different animal. from other arch-conservative groups. What a trip they are. Only a very few of their theories. are worth consideration. For instance, I do think there was something very suspicious about the death of Seth Rich, although their scenario of it is ridiculous..
    Having said all that, the articles Martin posted were from legitimate news sources, as far as I could determine and not slanted to the far right. Maybe we should give Martin some credit for legitimacy in his sourcing.
     
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