What About Electric Cars?

Discussion in 'Energy & Fuel' started by Frank Sanoica, Sep 20, 2019.

  1. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Veteran Member
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    [​IMG]

    Nissan Leaf, fully electric, cut away showing the battery packs and the big orange "hoses" which carry the juice to the drivetrain. The 192 cells are arranged into 48 modules of 4 cells each.

    Batteries do not have unlimited lifespans, their life depending on many factors, most importantly depth of discharge cycles, rate of acceleration by the driver, and temperatures encountered.

    In spring 2018, Nissan introduced a program to let first-gen Leaf owners in Japan exchange a degraded lithium ion battery for a refurbished and less expensive one. The refurbished battery at that time cost ¥300,000 ($2,853), less than half the cost of a new 24-kWh battery at the time.
    (kWh stands for Kilowatt-hours, a standard unit for measuring electricity consumption, 1 kwh being 1000 watts of power operating for 1 hour).

    EV, Electric Vehicle, emits no polluting crap into the environment (except the worn-off rubber from tires). However, they cannot be considered "non-polluting" since building them involves considerable pollution, and re-charging the batteries uses electricity which was produced at the expense of pollution.

    EV potential for performance is incredible. Zero to sixty mph times are comparable to those of the fastest "muscle cars".

    Do you have an EV, or know someone who does?

    Frank

     
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  2. Bess Barber

    Bess Barber Very Well-Known Member
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    I think the concept will be more widely accepted in Europe than the USA. They commute less miles and tend to drive smaller vehicles to begin with. It would be quite awhile before the USA will be less SUV minded and truck minded. We are, by nature, road hogs. :D
     
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  3. Yvonne Smith

    Yvonne Smith Greeter
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    My daughter has a MiniCooper, which is more of a hybrid than a total electric vehicle, but most of the time it runs on the battery.
    It is an incredible little car, and knows so many things that it is kind of like a drivable computer !
    Just going back and forth to work, she only uses electricity, and can charge it overnight. If she travels, most of the hotels where she stays for work also have a charging station for electric vehicles.

    My son has a Prius, which is also a hybrid, but I don’t think that it charges at a station like the MiniCooper does.
    I think that when he runs off of gasoline, then it charges up the battery.
    Robin’s Mini does that, too; so when she is on a long trip, and uses up the battery, then she can run on gasoline and charge up her battery again.

    E657740B-5C38-48D0-9320-257E8BD07BA9.jpeg
     
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  4. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Veteran Member
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    @Bess Barber
    I was amazed at how many have been sold:

    Global plug-in vehicle deliveries reached 1 134 000 units in the 1st half of 2019, 46 % higher than for 2018.
    U.S. sales 2018: 122,000; 2019 so far: 149,000
     
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  5. Craig Swanson

    Craig Swanson Very Well-Known Member
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    Recall I started an electric car thread. Must have been day dreaming as I can not find it.
    @Bess Barber this is the same as Australia. Huge distances to travel on batteries that provide only power for small distances without a recharge. Still charging stations are now popping up all over my country and there is a concerted effort to now provide a longer charge than was previously the case.
     
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  6. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Veteran Member
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    You did and my concerns are the same in this thread as they were in the last: The batteries.
    For those into global climate change, the batteries emit a huge amount of CO2. And for those who are into just helping to protect the environment, I’m still concerned about the building, rebuilding and the disposal of the batteries and chemicals.
    Another thing I might mention is while in Nam, I saw the after effects of what happened when a 28V NiCad overheated and exploded whilst installed in a UH1-C helicopter. It was indeed with the keeping of killing people and wrecking things that the military is so well known for.

    Now, I haven’t really started any great amount of research regarding my concerns but I do plan to sometime soon but until then, perhaps those who are in the know can enlighten me a little further as to what innovations have been produced to eliminate those concerns.
     
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  7. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Veteran Member
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    @Bobby Cole
    Since I used the Nissan Leaf car in the example, this site on car emissions lists ZERO CO2 emissions for all Leaf models:

    https://car-emissions.com/cars/model/Nissan/Leaf

    Frank
     
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  8. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Veteran Member
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  9. Bess Barber

    Bess Barber Very Well-Known Member
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    @Yvonne Smith My daughter said her next car will be a mini cooper. She really likes them. For me, not so much. Too small, too dangerous.
     
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  10. Craig Swanson

    Craig Swanson Very Well-Known Member
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    @Bobby Cole this may throw some lite on your concerns.
    • EVs are responsible for considerably lower emissions over their lifetime than conventional (internal combustion engine) vehicles across Europe as a whole.
    • In countries with coal-intensive electricity generation, the benefits of EVs are smaller and they have similar lifetime emissions to the most efficient conventional vehicles – such as hybrid-electric models.
    • However, as countries decarbonise electricity generation to meet their climate targets, driving emissions will fall for existing EVs and manufacturing emissions will fall for new EVs.
    • Comparisons between electric vehicles and conventional vehicles are complex. They depend on the size of the vehicles, the accuracy of the fuel-economy estimates used, how electricity emissions are calculated, what driving patterns are assumed, and even the weather in regions where the vehicles are used. There is no single estimate that applies everywhere.
    As I see it EVs and Hydrogen powered vehicles will continue to emit unwanted CO2 as long as the grid remains carbonised. There are moves afoot in Australia.. for instance towards de-carbonising our grid. But as long as we have governments still digging up coal to power our electricity then it may take some time.
     
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  11. Craig Swanson

    Craig Swanson Very Well-Known Member
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    The tyranny of distance that Australian EV drivers have to persevere with just got closer with a new EV charging network set up by Australian company Chargefox that will now increase the former Queensland Electric Super Highway( see below link)) from a mere 17 stations to 100 by the end of 2019.

    That is 100 fast 50kW DC chargers in the network that can extend an EV's driving range by up to 60 klm (37ml) for every 15 minutes of charge. This will now allow EV drivers to use the single charging network from Adelaide in South Australia to Cairns, QLD..

    Chargefox currently has 170 public charging sites in operation, 5 of which offer ultra-rapid 350kW fast charging to deliver up to 400 klm (248ml)of extra range per hour of charging. The amount of ultra fast charging stations is now expected to greatly increase.
    (https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/-/media/tmfranch/superhighway.jpg)
     
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  12. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Veteran Member
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    @Bobby Cole
    Well, right you are, 'ceptin'.......The batteries themselves are sealed, therefore emitting nothing except some heat. Some consider heat to be a form of environmental pollution. Anyhow, I thought I was explaining how EVs are not to be considered free of pollution effects when I said this:

    "However, they cannot be considered "non-polluting" since building them involves considerable pollution, and re-charging the batteries uses electricity which was produced at the expense of pollution."

    Frank
     
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  13. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Veteran Member
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    @Craig Swanson
    I don't understand here. Hydrogen powered vehicles emit only water vapor, assuming the fuel is pure hydrogen. If it has contaminants such as other flammable gases, then it's a different story. I don't get the connection between burning hydrogen and the grid.
    Frank
     
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  14. Hal Pollner

    Hal Pollner Very Well-Known Member
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    We'll just have to learn not to be!
    Harry
     
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  15. Bess Barber

    Bess Barber Very Well-Known Member
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    Why?
    We are Americans. It's what we do. :)
     
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