What Are Your Thoughts About Heaven And Hell?

Discussion in 'Faith & Religion' started by Lon Tanner, Nov 23, 2019.

  1. Bob Kirk

    Bob Kirk Very Well-Known Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2019
    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    629
    I'm guessing you are referring to the brain functioning after death. So i'm asking you. What good is brain activity or a thought of a deceased if that thought isn't communicated?
     
    #46
  2. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Veteran Member
    Patron Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    4,600
    Likes Received:
    8,669
    So, I take it you do not differentiate between the mind and the brain. To say that the brain lives for any length of time after death would indeed be totally absurd.
    If you’ll take about 5 or 10 years like I have or even one whole day and research “thought” and or “consciousness” you’ll undoubtedly come away with only a little bit of the vast spectrum of what I am referring to.

    Edit: When I write, “consciousness” I’m not referring to someone who has just opened their eyes after getting knocked out after some fight.
    To make things simple, if that can be done, take someone who is in a coma for instance. It is said that talking to that person can be beneficial. It isn’t that their brainwave activity changes but there is an almost certainty that some of those people know what is going on around them whilst in the coma. Several subjects have said as much but the problem is, there is no method to determine or measure whether a person is conscious. In other words, that person may be awake and aware but have no ability to exhibit that awareness.
     
    #47
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2019
  3. Joseph Carl

    Joseph Carl Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    May 26, 2019
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    69
    To Sheldon and the others who liked his #11 post saying that heaven and hell do not exist; that it's just another control method to keep people supporting the church, I'd counter such reasoning with these points.

    The concept of a day of judgement and God exercising his wrath upon the wicked was documented in the Bible's Old Testament well before the Christian era. And the specific doctrines of heaven and hell were taught by Jesus and the apostles well before the churches were established. Thus, the reality of heaven or hell has no dependence whatsoever on whether or what churches today are preaching about it. To justify one's position on the existence of heaven or hell on this unfounded connection is illogical.

    The reality is that hell is a distasteful and unpopular topic for preachers and pastors to cover, and thus, very few sermons are actually given on it (compared to the millions of other sermons given each year). While the subject matter may certainly be used as a reminding lesson to fear God, its an unjustified conclusion to assume that its a control tactic used by churches to build or maintain membership.

    I'd suggest that belief in heaven and hell relies on belief in God and the authority of the Bible's scriptures. For anyone recognizing the supernatural creation of this world, the first premise is obvious and scientifically supported. For anyone studying the Bible, the second premise is supported by its manuscript authority, scientific insight, and fulfilled prophesy.

    Atheists, skeptics, and even God believing individuals who deny the existance of a real hell should consider that their belief or unbelief has no bearing on whether such a reality exists. The importance of one's potential soul is immeasurably important, and it seems incomprehensable that anyone would willingly choose a potential path towards eternal torment over a path of eternal joy. It really should give pause to anyone rejecting the grace and life that Jesus offers.
     
    #48
    Al Amoling and Bobby Cole like this.
  4. Bob Kirk

    Bob Kirk Very Well-Known Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2019
    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    629
    I haven't spent years studying. But to answer your question I do differentiate between the brain as an organ of the body & the mind being function of the brain.

    Quote
    To say that the brain lives for any length of time after death would indeed be totally absurd.

    Human brain may stay active for hours after death.
    https://www.news-medical.net/news/20181125/Human-brain-may-stay-active-for-hours-after-death.aspx

    Hal Pollner posted
    Quote
    Heaven and Hell cannot be in the mind of the Departed...there is no mind after death...only Oblivion.

    Quote
    To make things simple, if that can be done, take someone who is in a coma for instance. It is said that talking to that person can be beneficial. It isn’t that their brainwave activity changes but there is an almost certainty that some of those people know what is going on around them whilst in the coma. Several subjects have said as much but the problem is, there is no method to determine or measure whether a person is conscious. In other words, that person may be awake and aware but have no ability to exhibit that awareness.

    I understand Hal Pollners post to mean dead with no return to life. Your simple example of coma isn't the same as being dead beyond recovery.

    I don't understand your post. Knowing that the human brain may stay active after death, I asked this question.

    What good is brain activity or a thought of a deceased if that thought isn't communicated?
     
    #49
  5. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Veteran Member
    Patron Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    4,600
    Likes Received:
    8,669
    Both of you guys are completely locked on the material being and lost when it comes to things you cannot see. You come to the debate table with opinions that are not yours but are merely talking points that have been around for ages and ages. All you are doing is agreeing with someone else’s opinions.
    I, on the other hand, have not only a personal relationship with an eternal consciousness (God if you will) but a heckova lot of personal experience and study behind me in order to form my OWN opinions concerning the questions at hand.

    Even most blind men will at least try to understand what color is instead of steadfastly denying that such a thing exists.
     
    #50
  6. Bob Kirk

    Bob Kirk Very Well-Known Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2019
    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    629
    Whew a personal relationship, not physical but mental based on a belief. Why is it so hard for you to grasp the concept that there are some that don't share your belief.

    This part of my post # 50 flies in the face of your learning

    From your post #48

    Quote
    To say that the brain lives for any length of time after death would indeed be totally absurd.

    Human brain may stay active for hours after death.
    https://www.news-medical.net/news/20181125/Human-brain-may-stay-active-for-hours-after-death.aspx

    I can appreciate that you have a belief system that gives you comfort, but to put that forth as the only thinking of value is absurd. Back to the ops start. I'm in the camp of there is nothing after death.
     
    #51
  7. Sheldon Scott

    Sheldon Scott Veteran Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2015
    Messages:
    2,792
    Likes Received:
    4,312
    Just how does this make it true?
     
    #52
    Beth Gallagher likes this.
  8. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Veteran Member
    Patron Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    4,600
    Likes Received:
    8,669
    Ya see Bob, you totally miss the whole point and that’s not something I’m even going to attempt to remedy. The truth of the matter is that I really do not care what you believe or for that matter, what anyone else believes.
    It’s like the “go to the edge of the city and shake the sand from your shoes” kind of thing.
    It’s your method of delivering what you believe that concerns me. You came out of the gate with reasons for your disbelief and called them your own opinions when in fact, they’re only talking points that date so far back that even studying Christians know them so they’re redundant. In other words, you’re only agreeing with someone else’s findings which I see no wrong in doing except that you can’t call them your own opinion but instead an accord or agreement.
    If you had even written that I could be as right as you are or you could be as wrong as I am, it would at least been your opinion. One that you couldn’t possibly substantiate, but nonetheless your own opinion.
    The bottom line here is that I attempted to offer you something to think about regarding some new findings and it somehow got turned into a medical thread which is NOT what i intended to do.

    You’ll note that in another thread I had a small disagreement with @Joseph Carl. He’s a wonderful brother in Christ and extremely zealous and well studied when it comes to the center of our mutual belief system so it wasn’t that I disagreed with him but just merely how he presented his premise.

    The same goes for you Bob. I’m assuming that you’re a very fine person but whether or not you believe in heaven or hell or if we have a soul / mind or spirit doesn’t really concern me. I do not care for indeed you made your choice pretty evident but it would have been soooo much simpler if you hadn’t decided to throw in why you hate my belief system so adamantly.

    Thus far, I have tried to offer up something to whet the appetite of someone who might want to know more about what a “soul” might be or what thought might be in conjunction with that but alas, you wish to stay in the material world whilst I continually search for answers dealing with that which most call the spirit.

    I do think I’ll end my part of the conversation here. I might start a new thread delving into the newer findings regarding the mind, thought and consciousness but for now, what I have written is about all I’m going to write in this thread. God Bless........
     
    #53
  9. Bob Kirk

    Bob Kirk Very Well-Known Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2019
    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    629
    Bobby do I detect a hint of frustration in your post? As I understand forums
    this section is for religion which makes it open for opinion from either view.

    Lets review where opinions come from.

    Mine from medical, & science based articles.

    Yours, I'm guessing from the bible & religious articles.

    We both use what we think we learn from what we read to form our opinions. The difference as I see it. Your sources aren't fact based. Your opinions promote the same information expressed in what you read.

    Translation of that. You aren't doing anything differant than I am.

    Having faith in a supernatural being that is over 3 billion years old, sitting somewhere judging several thousand "spirits" a day works for you. I'm happy for you.

    Meanwhile excuse me if I don't buy into two humans supposedly created for the purpose of the continuance of mankind.DNA doesn't support that.
     
    #54
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019 at 4:55 PM
  10. Bill Boggs

    Bill Boggs Veteran Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    May 13, 2015
    Messages:
    3,302
    Likes Received:
    4,292
    That's quite possible.
     
    #55
    Beth Gallagher likes this.
  11. Sheldon Scott

    Sheldon Scott Veteran Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2015
    Messages:
    2,792
    Likes Received:
    4,312
    Bobby, When you study whether from books (including the bible) or a teacher or any source you are merely learning someone else's opinion. You have been brought up being told the bible is true before you ever read it. Your opinions are based on what you were told as a child. Someone who had never heard about the bible should just pick one up and read it they would never believe any of it to be true.

    My opinions are based om many things, including reading the bible. Most Christians I know have never read the bible. They read the same few bits and quote them all the time.

    I do like discussing this with you and others as I often wonder why people believe what they do. But it just doesn't make sense to say people don't have their own opinions. We bot read the same bible but we form completely different opinions from it.
     
    #56
  12. Lois Winters

    Lois Winters Well-Known Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2019
    Messages:
    511
    Likes Received:
    966
  13. Tommy Gunne

    Tommy Gunne New Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2019
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    15
    Personally, I'm open to life after death, although I don't think it likely. Heaven and Hell were created by some people as a way to control other people. Way back in time the Pope and Cardinals and such were living great lives while the masses were starving. Holding out a "Heaven" as a reward was a way to keep people in line and not revolt. Same for the early Kings. They were living like, well kings, while there subjects suffered. The thought of a Heaven kept them in line.
     
    #58
    Monica Rich and Patsy Faye like this.
  14. Tommy Gunne

    Tommy Gunne New Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2019
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    15
    I don't think this is taught any longer. I've been to several Catholic funerals where the deceased was cremated and the urn was at the Mass.
     
    #59
  15. Nancy Hart

    Nancy Hart Very Well-Known Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2018
    Messages:
    4,399
    Likes Received:
    8,318
    I've been following this thread with interest. Correct me if I'm wrong. Is it hypothesized that when you die your "mind" or your "soul" may go into a dream-like state? Where Heaven cold be thought of as having pleasant dreams for eternity, and otherwise nightmares? I'm putting it simply, in terms of things we might all relate to, not being facetious at all.

    And the debate is ... whether there is something equivalent to dreaming after you are deceased, and are you, as yourself, aware of it? I tend to think not, but who knows. It may be possible. I doubt we will ever be able to disprove it.

    This theory makes more sense than anything I've ever heard so far. Thanks for the discussion.
     
    #60

Share This Page