World's Largest Solar Project Would Generate Electricity 24 Hours A Day, Power 1 Million U.s. Homes

Discussion in 'Energy & Fuel' started by Frank Sanoica, Oct 12, 2016.

  1. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Supreme Member
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    Here's what it will look like:
    [​IMG]

    The country will desperately need greater utilization of Solar Electric Power in the future, as more controls are placed on the burning of fossil fuels....(my comment).

    "The race to build the world's largest solar power-plant is heating up. California-based energy company Solar Reserve announced plans for a massive concentrated solar power(CSP) plant in Nevada that claims to be the largest of its kind once built."

    "Solar Reserve CEO Kevin Smith told the Las Vegas Review-Journal that the $5 billion endeavor would generate between 1,500 and 2,000 megawatts of power, enough to power about 1 million homes. That amount of power is as much as a nuclear power-plant, or the 2,000-megawatt Hoover Dam and far bigger than any other existing solar facility on Earth, the Review-Journal pointed out."

    Solar Reserve's Sandstone project involves at least 100,000 mirrored heliostats that capture the sun's rays and concentrates it onto 10 towers equipped with a molten salt energy storage system. The molten salt, heated to more than 1,000 degrees, then boils water and creates a steam turbine that can drive generators 24/7."

    From: http://www.ecowatch.com/worlds-largest-solar-project-nevada-2041546638.html

    I spoke disparagingly about this type of Solar Power gathering in earlier discussions. Currently operating plants using this technique on a much smaller scale are killing birds, perhaps thousands annually.

    "The Center for Biological Diversity hired biologist Shawn Smallwood to estimate bird mortality at the Ivanpah plant. In what he called a "back of the napkin" estimate, due to limited data available, Smallwood arrived at 28,380 bird deaths per year caused by Ivanpah" (Ivanpah is an already-operating facility). This:

    [​IMG]

    is a photovoltaic solar plant being built only three miles from our home! It contains no mirrors, no concentrators of heat, or transmission of it of any kind. The Electric Power is produced directly from Silicon Solar Cells mounted on pivoting supports which "follow" the sun's location as it sweeps across the sky. I had difficulty finding info on it, and have driven over there several times. As I understand it, it will produce about 34 million (mega) watts of electric power. When the sun sets, the cells "rest", though some infrared radiation is available during the night, hardly any power will then be generated.

    THIS is the right way, IMO. Frank
     
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  2. Corie Henson

    Corie Henson Veteran Member
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    We are dreaming of a power source that is purely clean energy with solar, wind and geothermal. If we have the technology, I wonder what's keeping our governments from using that knowledge? I know that we have several wind power farms here, not just 1 or 2 but in several provinces where the most popular is the one in Ilocos Norte which is the project of the governor who is the daughter of our former president Marcos. With the solar, there is no solar farm here that is substantial in size. All I have seen are farms with several solar panels only. From our own research, the main issue in solar energy is the battery which is the storage of the collected solar power. And until the technology of the battery is not improved then solar power will not be economical.
     
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  3. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Supreme Member
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    @Corie Henson
    Corie, here is the part not well understood. Basic differences exist between powering a home using Solar, and using Solar to contribute to the energy available in a large "grid". The home has no way of immediately using all the power produced, so it is "stored" in batteries, or better yet, "dumped" back into the existing grid supplying power there. When that is done, one's electric meter actually runs backwards, creating a "credit" against the home-owner's bill!

    Now, with "Power Plants", those facilities intended to produce power and distribute it, no storage facility is provided. The power they produce is "dumped" continuously into the grid. The "thermal storage" concept above, "preserves" part of the power produced during daylight hours, by "storing" it in the form of heated liquid usually within tanks buried underground. Then, during the night, that stored heat may be released by allowing the hot liquid to flow out of the tank into a heat exchanger, where steam is produced, which drives the electric generators. In the "home storage unit", batteries accept the electric power delivered by the sunlight, and store it for use later.

    Am I too technical? I can try to explain further...........
    Frank
     
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  4. Corie Henson

    Corie Henson Veteran Member
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    @Frank Sanoica, let's just be friends and quit the high tech talk, hahahaaah. I had already said that I have a bad cold which gives me weak knees and a bad cough. I forgot to say I have a headache too and it is getting aggravated by your posts, huh.

    But seriously, we really go for clean energy and we are hoping that in our lifetime, we will live to see solar powered homes, not one or some but all homes in our country.
     
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  5. Honey Gee

    Honey Gee Veteran Member
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    We need to look for new power sources. Ween us off dependency for oil and all the problems that come with that.
     
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  6. Ted Richards

    Ted Richards Veteran Member
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    Those who strongly oppose renewable energy have the most to gain from keeping the old energy resources, coal and oil. They also have the most powerful voices in governments. I think that's why progressive California leads in renewable energy projects.

    Here in BC, 93% of our electrical power is renewable energy, mostly from vast Hydro dams built in the past. We are fortunate in having a mountainous Province with lots of rivers for hydro dams.

    On a larger scale, Almost everywhere has vast renewable energy potential from wind farms and solar to tidal and wave power. More energy falls on the earth everyday from the sun than we can possibly use, we simply need the will to capture and use it.
     
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  7. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Supreme Member
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    @Timetrvlr
    Hydro power is good, yes. It requires a reasonably continuous supply of stored water, such storage being subject to the whims of Mother Nature though. Thus, big reservoirs are necessary, requiring big dams. Big dams hastily implemented have caused disasters. Aside from those factors, the unknowns associated with global warming throw in additional questions. Nonetheless, I strongly support Hydro.

    Tidal and wave power generation have not been introduced on large reliable scale, to my knowledge. Desert sun seems to be very reliable over the long term. Frank
     
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  8. Craig Wilson

    Craig Wilson Veteran Member
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    This is exciting indeed Frank. Australia is also starting to go solar in a big way.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10...iggest-solar-farms-set-for-balranald/10359110
     
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  9. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Supreme Member
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    @Craig Swanson
    The "powers that be" seem here to be pushing more towards individual solar power systems installed on a per-residence basis. I oppose this, favoring the large, commercial plant, being far-better able to purchase in great quantity, assess operating "quirks", and maintain functionality than the typical homeowner. I see that former scheme as a means of supporting many new contracting firms, and subtly allowing the politicos to claim they "created jobs".
    Frank
     
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  10. Craig Wilson

    Craig Wilson Veteran Member
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    Those two plants are about half way thru completion. Could say they are late comers as Australia first large scale solar plant (below) was built in Western Australia seven years ago.
    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Craig Wilson

    Craig Wilson Veteran Member
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    More exciting news.
    An Australian/German joint venture will invest $450 million to build Australia's largest solar power station in country NSW. The 333MWDC (275MWAC) Darlington Point Solar Farm will generate 685,000 MWh of renewable energy each year – enough to power around 115,000 homes. Generation is expected to start in early 2020.
    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Supreme Member
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    @Craig Swanson
    They appear to be using the solid-state approach I personally prefer: no intermediate high-temperature medium, nor boiling water/steam generation, far less environmental destruction, save for the expanses of land used, which likely is mainly non-productive anyway.

    The Ivanpah (California) plant uses 170,000 Heliostats to concentrate solar radiation on towers:
    [​IMG]


    "The Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System is a concentrated solar thermal plant in the Mojave Desert. It is located at the base of Clark Mountain in California, across the state line from Primm, Nevada. The plant has a gross capacity of 392 megawatts(MW).[6] It deploys 173,500 heliostats, each with two mirrors focusing solar energy on boilers located on three centralized solar power towers."
    See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah_Solar_Power_Facility

    This method of collecting solar power is, among other negatives, expensive of water usage. It's highly concentrated beams kill any flying bird encountering it instantly. Conversely, photovoltaic cells generate electric current directly; all they need do is "follow" the sun. Either method requires that the gathering devices be kept relatively clean.

    Frank
     
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  13. Craig Wilson

    Craig Wilson Veteran Member
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    Frank Australia was to have one of those built but the project was scrapped. Not sure why. Finances I suspect.

    Craig.. no need for formality.
     
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  14. Craig Wilson

    Craig Wilson Veteran Member
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    I wonder how many Australians know about this-and it is not good news....

    " Australia's commitment to renewable energy dwarfs that of even the green minded EU, US and China...per capita. We have installed five times more renewable projects than these power houses and even two and a half times more than climate-obsessed Germany that instigated the Energiewende or in English "the renewable revolution".. decades ago. So if Australians question why our energy costs are the steepest in the world.. here is the answer. Ironically as Australia is poised to replace Qatar as the world's largest producer of natural gas, Australian renewable industrial enterprises are under so much pressure from astronomic energy prices that many are closing and now importing from China, India and Philippines. These same countries are being powered by Australian coal and gas".
     
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  15. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Supreme Member
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    @Craig Swanson
    These circumstances seem convoluted and inter-twined.......imponderable to my simple mind. Australia being a zillion times the size of Qatar, why should it not exceed energy production of that country?
    Frank
     
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