Your Thoughts On Le Droit A L'oubli?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by Mari North, Jul 14, 2016.

  1. Mari North

    Mari North Veteran Member
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    French term meaning "right of oblivion." It's a "right" that convicted criminals want now... the right to "be forgotten" when it comes to public records, Internet searches, and so on.

    The justification is that once they've "paid their debt to society" the details shouldn't be available on places like search engines. It "strips their dignity" they say. Hmmm.... There's been a ruling in the European Court of Justices that agrees the censoring of that data should happen.

    What do y'all think? *Does* a criminal have a right to "close the records" and prevent future employers, etc. (even potential spouses!) from finding out nasty facts of the past? I haven't heard of this concept coming to America yet, by the way, but it probably wouldn't surprise me.
     
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  2. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Supreme Member
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    I don't know the answer. It does make it hard for them to get jobs. It would depend on the crime too.

    Once a pedophile always a pedophile, that's something I'd like to know if I'm marrying someone and have small children.

    I think after 7 or 10 years bankruptcies are taken off your record. If you were in jail for drugs and you did your time it doesn't mean you won't go back to doing drugs.

    The more I'm writing the more I'm thinking I have a right to know what I'm getting into with somebody that committed a crime. Just because you've served your time doesn't mean you've changed.

    Most criminals are repeat offenders anyway. Especially with drugs, prostitution, petty theft etc.

    If I was younger in today's world I would want to see an HIV test before I slept with you. Maybe even
    2. :)

    I didn't request one with my ex because I was pretty sure he didn't have an sexually transmitted diseases. He didn't request one either but I don't think he cared. :)
     
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  3. Mari North

    Mari North Veteran Member
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    Yep, yep... that's why I don't really know which side of the fence I'm on either. Like you said, if someone served time for murder or crimes against women or children, I'd sure want to know.

    So yes, when it comes to someone you're going to date or marry, I do think I have the right to know. And we wouldn't need to do an Internet search if they're honest from the beginning.

    On that "other hand"... yes, it's difficult to get employment. I don't think employers should probably know *everything* if it couldn't affect their business... but then again, even something like a drunk driving conviction would be something an employer needs to know because of the drinking to excess issue that *could* affect a employee's production or overall success in the workplace.

    So I have formed my opinion. Maybe that "if you do the crime, you do the time" applies to more than physical jail time. So there's my decision. I would want to know a criminal record for a potential partner *or* to hire someone. I'd hope they'd be honest before it would *get* to the point of me having to do that background check.
     
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  4. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Supreme Member
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    Problem is that being honest isnt a trait of criminals. There have been so many cases of children being molested by
    A boyfriend or step father because the mother didn't know the background of the man. To be fair
    Some of these mothers didn't care.

    On the other hand, if records are erased, and you really want to find the truth you probably can, especially if they can't account for 20 years of their life because they were in jail.
     
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  5. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    That's a good question. It is true that people have hard time finding work after leaving prison, and it would be reasonable to assume that this contributes to recidivism. At the same time, another contributing factor, I'm sure, is that these are people who are prone to breaking the law. On an individual basis, I can see that someone who steals a car or breaks into a store at a young age probably shouldn't be saddled with this throughout his life, because people are not necessarily who they were at eighteen or twenty. At the same time, people have a right to know who they are hiring to teach their children or manage their store. There are no perfect solutions but some, perhaps most, states have a procedure where someone can apply to have their records expunged after a time. In that way, I believe their records are still available to law enforcement but they won't otherwise show up on criminal record checks. The problem there is that it's expensive and you often have to know the right people in order for it to be approved, which often means that if you're rich enough you can have your record expunged, and these are not the people who need it the most.
     
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  6. Mari North

    Mari North Veteran Member
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    Yes, that's what makes it so tough... I'm all for privacy... probably a lot more than many people before and since the Patriot Act. But this one seems to cross a line. I don't want to hire someone who's hidden a criminal record from me. And I don't want my daughter marrying someone who, with something like le droit a l'oubli, would be able to totally pull the wool over her eyes.

    I agree that things like stealing a car or petty theft as a teen or "young 20s" wouldn't necessarily need to be things that stop an employment hiring, but I'd like to think that the applicant would come forward with the information... especially if there hasn't been trouble since then. Unfortunately there often *is* a longer record as the years go on.
     
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  7. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Supreme Member
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    Bottom line...crime has consequences. If you don't want a record, don't do the crime.
     
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  8. Texas Beth

    Texas Beth Veteran Member
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    Oh, me. What a tough question. I do believe that the public has the right to know about felony convictions.
     
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  9. Diane Lane

    Diane Lane Veteran Member
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    I think if it was a minor non-violent offense, and not a pattern of behavior, I'd be o.k. with it being expunged. The ex's son (one of them) slept with his teenage girlfriend, and was charged at the insistence of her parents, for statutory rape or whatever it's called where they were. He was also a teenager, and it was a consensual relationship. He was labeled as a sex offender for that, but at the lowest level, however it could have been used against him, and he could have been prevented from seeing his children. It dogged him for years, but finally, he was able to have it removed from his record.

    I think it's important to maintain a record of some offenses, regardless of whether a sentence has been served, especially the more egregious offenses. In some cases, companies are held responsible for the acts committed by their employees, so I think they should have access to criminal records. I would also like the ability to know what someone I decide to date/marry has been up to, so I can make an informed decision before getting involved. Not every individual would rebuff a potential employee or partner based on his/her past, so there are still some opportunities to those people, particularly if they live in large, well-populated areas. Here are some interesting statistics on the subject and this is a great show.
     
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  10. Corie Henson

    Corie Henson Veteran Member
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    There is a proposal here to revive the death penalty which was scrapped a decade ago. But according to the proponent, the death penalty would only be applicable to heinous crimes. In the same vein, that deletion of criminal record can be applied depending on the gravity of the crime. But on second thought, a record is a record and part of history so if that record would be deleted and removed in the public archive then it is like cheating.

    If that would be a law, I'm sure it will be an issue when a convicted criminal with a deleted record would be a repeat offender. That would be the day that proponents would have a second thought on their motion.
     
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  11. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Supreme Member
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    Sounds to me like a "dodge" of background checks for known criminals desiring to obtain firearms. But, how stupid must criminals be to think they can walk into a gun store, fraudulently fill out the required Federal Form 4473, and think they will pass the background check, to boot. When it came into use, 4473 was one page, two sides. Now, it is 6 pages. The firearms continue to be purchased legally thusly, and yet illegal use of firearms flourishes. Care to see 4473, it's: https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download
     
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  12. K E Gordon

    K E Gordon Veteran Member
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    Well here in Virginia convicted felons just got their legal right to vote restored. Thus, I think it is a step in the direction of expunging records. I think maybe there should be some statute of limitations on it like there is with bankruptcy, if someone has kept a clean record for 7 sevens they can have their criminal record expunged, unless it was a violent offense in which case I think it should stay on the books.
     
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  13. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Supreme Member
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    Personally, I feel it is a violation of an individual's Constitutional Right of self-defense to forever ban a previously convicted Felon from possessing a firearm, even though his/her "debt to society" had been paid.
    Frank
     
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  14. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    The people who wrote the Bill of Rights would have agreed, and that didn't used to be the practice. You got your gun back when you were released from prison.
     
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  15. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Supreme Member
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    The People the wrote the Bill of Rights lived in a different world. Giving people that have maybe already used a gun in a crime a chance to get a gun is the dumbest thing I've heard.

    This obsession lately with the second amendment is gone too far in my opinion. That's all you ever hear and it's always behind whatever is being argued.

    If you take terrorists out of the picture, there is still a shooting every single day somewhere. The stories are rare about it being used in self defense.

    I know guns don't kill people it's the people that kill people, obviously there is something wrong with people these days because there are just too many shootings.
     
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