"When the Greeks got the gospel, they turned it into a philosophy; when the Romans got it, they turned it into a government; when the Europeans got it, they turned it into a culture; and when the Americans got it, they turned it into a business." -- Richard Halverson Although the large mega-churches certainly do pay their pastors a lot, particularly those that are basically businesses owned by the senior pastor, I think most churches don't do that. These mega-churches also bring in a lot of money, which doesn't justify the palaces and cars and everything else that are enjoyed by their pastors. I have been a member of only one church that had an attending membership of more than two hundred, so I know that this isn't the case with most of the pastors I have known. At the Grace Brethren Church that I attended in Anaheim, the pastor was also a plumber, who mostly supported himself as a plumber. He was paid a stipend by the church and at time when the church had special projects going on that demanded his time, he was paid more, so that he wouldn't suffer financially. I guess that's the difference between a vocation and an avocation, or an occupation and a calling.
Yes, I'd really like to find out the difference in young kids and teens that don't attend church or Sunday School and those that do. To me, there has to be a difference. Although, even though I went to church every Sunday, from age 15 thru 19, except when Guardians (called them "mom" and "dad") went on a weekend vacation to see my moms sisters in Michigan, I didn't have the best behavior. There were things I done, like change the "F's" on my report card to a "B" or an "A" before showing it to my mom and dad and then changing back. Eraser marks started showing up and, even though I was embarrassed about doing it, told my mom and dad what I had did. From some reason they understood and I wasn't punished. There were a few other things that a good so-called "Christian young man" shouldn't do, that I did, but will leave them alone. But, still wonder about those that do and those that don't.
The last time I sat through a church Service was in 1948, when I was twelve. To me, Sermons are the most Boring of all elocutions. Harold
It may be seemingly sad, but a pastor speaks to be heard by the congregation and listened to by the adults. Let's face it, most 12 year old children get bored after having to sit for 10 minutes without being entertained. Then, there's the element of whether the pastor is a teacher/preacher or a preacher/teacher. Both have their place but I will guarantee the teacher/preacher will hold a young one's attention much longer.
After 67 years on this earth and many of those years attending church services faithfully as well as serving in different areas of those churches I can say without a doubt there is politics going on in every church no matter its denomination or non-denomination. I rarely attend church in a building anymore because I find that so many "Shepherds" are not guiding their flocks towards the Lord and His Truth but instead they are leading their flocks more to the World's ways, etc. Worship of the Lord has turned into entertainment of the masses and many churches no longer even talk about sin and the need of salvation anymore. Instead they are filling their sermons with feel good and prosperity messages. God warns us not to become part of the World....and that He does not change. His Truth and His promises are the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow...and He is the same too. To many so called Christian churches are being led astray by their Shepherds who instead of helping their flocks stay firm in their Christian faith, etc....are leading them into the ways of the World and welcoming those same Worldly ways into the Church.
I quit liking going to church when it quit being in Latin. That made it mystical for me. No matter what faith church I went to, I hated the sermon the most.
I quit going to church on a regular basis the day I walked into one and I felt like I had entered a bar with a band...instead of a house of worship and prayer.
They allow the Latin Rite now, don't they? I think they do, but that doesn't mean that there are many churches using it. I can see the purpose of contemporary music being used, just as I can see that the King James Version isn't going to be the best version for everyone, but that's not for me. Of course, that's not so much politics as it is trying to reach people who aren't being reached through traditional services. Although the delivery might change, the message should not change, as God does not change.
The Mass in Latin was never banned, but the vernacular HAD to be offered after Vatican II, so most bishops pressured everybody to do the vernacular of the parish, be it English, Spanish, Korean, Mandarin, or whatever. I doubt most priests could do an entire Mass in Latin now, but there are some who travel and provide that service to those who want it. I, too, can see the reason for offering contemporary music, especially to attract the younger folks, but the music should be the medium, not the message. It should be the means to touch people, but the substance of the message should be the focus, not the flash of the presentation.
I don't mind the Contemporary music...I have lots of CD's of this kind of Praise and Worship music. But painting the Sanctuary black along with the band playing so loud and a smoky haze around the ceiling lights reminds me to much of being in a bar. I did not feel the Holy Spirit in that atmosphere at all.
Because I came across these photos, but mostly because I thought this might be a good thread to pop back up again, given that it has mostly remained on topic (please don't bring it off-topic), I thought I'd post them here. When I do attend church, this is the church that I attend. It has a wood stove in the back. It's up north, near our camp. It's a small, log church, with only a few families attending. However, it's in the Saint John Valley, where most people are of French-Canadian backgrounds, and therefore Catholic. I don't know of any large Protestant churches nearby, and this church, in particular, is out of the way of anyone who isn't going there, so people don't just come across it. There is no membership, but there are a few families who attend regularly, and a couple of others who, like us, attend whenever we're in that part of the state. There are times when there have been 30-40 people in church on Saturday (it's a Saturday church), but there are usually only 10-15, not counting babies and really young kids. There isn't much in the way of church politics because there is no membership, and the pastor literally owns the church and the land it sits on, and built it with his own hands. It is a non-denominational church, and I don't even know which category I'd place it in if they had a website. The pastor started out Baptist and has retained many of the Baptist characteristics, but there's a little of the Mennonite in there, and maybe some Adventism, although the Saturday service part is a matter of convenience rather than policy, as some of those who attend also attend a Sunday church elsewhere. The pastor would disagree about my assessment of his beliefs, I know, because we've talked about it. After the service is over, pretty much everyone goes to a restaurant in Fort Kent for dinner, or sometimes to the pastor's house, and it's common to discuss the sermon, and no one is made to feel on the outside if they disagree with parts of it. I gain a lot when I am able to attend, but then I don't depend on my pastor to tell me what to believe. His job is to get me thinking about what I believe, to challenge my beliefs, and get me going to the Bible to sort it all out.
Very good, @Ken Anderson! That is exactly what I get out of attending church, along with the opportunity to socialize across the community. I don't just use the Bible, however, as I also consider tradition, church history, and logical thought, although many scholars don't like to interject logic as that makes some beliefs untenable.