Are Governments Necessary?

Discussion in 'Politics & Government' started by Jim Nash, Jan 24, 2019.

  1. Jim Nash

    Jim Nash Veteran Member
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    We are told that it is necessary to have a government, but they do not seem to resolve many problems. They are voted in and do not need any qualifications. They never fulfil their promises and all the work is done by professionals.
    Could we do away with the lot and arrange professional teams to do the jo without these self important characters . Here in the UK Northern Ireland is managing OK. Any ideas?
     
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  2. Patsy Faye

    Patsy Faye Supreme Member
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    Now that's given me something to think about - but its too early :p
     
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  3. Holly Saunders

    Holly Saunders Supreme Member
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    But ultimately Jim, wouldn't those professionals be a governing group? Good question tho'..something to ponder on..
     
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  4. Thomas Stearn

    Thomas Stearn Veteran Member
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    It's a popular sport to find fault with (any) government sooner or later. By the same token we could ask: Do we need leadership at all or do we actually need the state which the government is part of? As always, some would answer this question with an emphatic nope like the libertarians and others with a determined yep. If we do away with any government, we do away with the state since the two belong together. A government can be replaced, the state cannot provided that we don't want a different political system all together.

    My answer would be positive. I have lived in different political systems. There hasn't been a single government yet that a variable number of people didn't want to oust. I, for one, have never ever been satisfied with any government either, no matter what the political system was. That's why I haven't voted for almost 30 years now. I do, however, think that we couldn't do without a government and a state. I have discussed the implications of doing away with the state with libertarians down to the smallest detail and their alternative suggestions became more and more ridiculous. I'm determined not to spend any more of my precious life time remaining on those discussions and proposals.

    Anyway, the main reason why I think we can't do without a state and a government, provided we don't want to change the political system, was the financial crisis 2008/9. After years and even decades of bashing the state and the governmental institutions those proved to be the only fortress left. All of a sudden the only lifeline left was the state without the actions and guarantees of which the whole system would have collapsed. The invisible hand of self-regulating market forces had just disappeared. Europe was gazing into an abyss. Up until the present time governmental bodies have been picking up the pieces. For me, no further proof necessary.
     
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  5. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Supreme Member
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    Government of some kind is needed to keep order. Without some government, there would be never-ending clan wars and probably wars on a larger scale as well. Without government, there would be no laws, and, while we have far too many laws now, complete absence of a legal system would lead to chaos. As far as the economic crisis of 2008-2009 is concerned, that was created by the fact that so many fiat currencies exist in the world and thus everything was manipulated. The manipulation got beyond immediate control, and almost caused the economic system(s) based on those currencies to collapse. Currencies based oon hard assets would have survived just fine.
     
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  6. Hal Pollner

    Hal Pollner Veteran Member
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    Only if you want to get a Government job.

    Hal
     
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  7. Emma Smith

    Emma Smith Veteran Member
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    A completely divided government quickly becomes ineffective, but no government would be total chaos.

    Finding a way for everyone to work together, to limit power and influence (lobbyists), to keep each other in check, and having people with good morals who truly want what's best for their country and vote and act accordingly - some of the things that would create a good government ..

    The quote below applies to any country that's divided to the point that each side wants to win more than they want their country to thrive.


    "The problem with Washington is that we've all become Democrats and Republicans. Everything is aimed at enhancing political position instead of strengthening America."
    Anonymous
     
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  8. Lulu Moppet

    Lulu Moppet Veteran Member
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    "...........having people with good morals who truly want what's best for their country and vote and act accordingly"
    That's nebulous. According to individual voter standards I hope. Then, we're back where we started. Btw-HI EMMA!
     
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  9. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Supreme Member
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    I agree with you! That is the problem now or now days....

    The president needs to be the president of all not just those that voted for him....I’m not talking any prez in particular...just in general terms.
     
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  10. Jim Nash

    Jim Nash Veteran Member
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    Thanks for your balanced explanation. I suppose we don't realise how lucky we are living in stability and relative luxury. This is made clear by the thousands of people trying to get into our countries. Like the millionaire who strives for another yacht we will never be happy.
     
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  11. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Supreme Member
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    Look at Venezuela for an example of a government that has broken down. It has gone from the wealthiest nation in Latin America to rivaling Haiti in just a few years of broken government.
     
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  12. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    Whatever professional teams might be employed to carry on the functions of a government would soon become a controlling corporation, and we may as well be living in a nationwide company town.

    That said, the situation we have now, at least in the United States, isn't necessarily any better. We have an ever-enlarging elite who are exempt from pretty much everything that the rest of us spend our lives worrying about.
     
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  13. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Supreme Member
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    We have been stepping into an ever-deepening hole, @Ken Anderson. It seems to have begun during the Teddy Roosevelt-Woodrow Wilson era, when Progressivism was on the move. That gave us National Parks, but also gave us the Federal Reserve, direct election of Senators, and, eventually, Prohibition. Large numbers of Progressives in both parties until the Roosevelt era (FDR) who pushed the Progressive agenda as far as he could under the umbrella of, first, the Depression, and later WWII. Anyone interested in FDR can read their own research, but he handed over--or managed to have Congress hand over--an incredible amount of power to what is now called The Administrative State, that collection of bureaucrats that now dominate every aspect of American life. This situation continued until the 1960s and the War on Poverty, which essentially destroyed the Black family (in order to save it) and gave us duel citizenship, open borders, and, after Watergate, an ironic transfer of power and authority from the Legislative to Executive Branch of government. That transfer has led to many of the intrusive regulations, endless wars, and total lack of budget. Very sad....
     
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  14. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Supreme Member
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    @Jim Nash
    Has Northern Ireland no government, then? How do they govern themselves?

    And, yes, in my mind, most governments may be equated with the title "Scoundrel"
    Frank
     
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  15. Tom Galty

    Tom Galty Veteran Member
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    @Jim Nash

    That's why I voted to leave the EU.

    Its run by unelected bureaucrats who just impose laws on us.
     
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