Subverting The Electoral College

Discussion in 'Politics & Government' started by Ken Anderson, Mar 6, 2019.

  1. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Supreme Member
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    It’s the difference between a Constitutional Republic and a Democracy.
     
    #31
  2. Beth Gallagher

    Beth Gallagher Supreme Member
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    But in your example, that would be criminal justice. Is criminal justice actually applied differently in a Republic versus a Democracy?
     
    #32
  3. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Supreme Member
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    @Bobby Cole "Okay, back to work......"

    That job must be mighty important!

    Frank
     
    #33
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  4. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    Our government was set up as a republic, not a democracy. In a democracy, the majority rules. In a republic, the individual is protected from the majority.
     
    #34
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  5. Beth Gallagher

    Beth Gallagher Supreme Member
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    But ... members of the EC are not bound to cast their vote according to popular vote. How is that fair?? LINK

    "There is no Constitutional provision or Federal law that requires Electors to vote according to the results of the popular vote in their states. Some states, however, require Electors to cast their votes according to the popular vote. These pledges fall into two categories—Electors bound by state law and those bound by pledges to political parties.


    The U.S. Supreme Court has held that the Constitution does not require that Electors be completely free to act as they choose and therefore, political parties may extract pledges from electors to vote for the parties' nominees. Some state laws provide that so-called "faithless Electors" may be subject to fines or may be disqualified for casting an invalid vote and be replaced by a substitute elector. The Supreme Court has not specifically ruled on the question of whether pledges and penalties for failure to vote as pledged may be enforced under the Constitution. No Elector has ever been prosecuted for failing to vote as pledged.
     
    #35
  6. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    In nearly every case they do and, in some states, they are obligated to. The ability to do otherwise also serves a good purpose, in the event, that something comes up - or new information surfaces between the time of the election and the time that the electoral college casts their vote. God help us if you got your way, and the electoral college was abolished because I know that I wouldn't like the government that would replace the constitutional republic that our founders set up. Democracies don't last long and they end violently.
     
    #36
  7. Lulu Moppet

    Lulu Moppet Veteran Member
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    If Republicans won the popular, twice, but lost the electoral, they'd be screaming their heads off for change. Hypocrites.
     
    #37
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  8. Beth Gallagher

    Beth Gallagher Supreme Member
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    I take issue with your assumption of "my way," simply because I'm playing devil's advocate. Everyone nodding and agreeing on a forum gets boring after a time.
     
    #38
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  9. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Supreme Member
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    A bit off topic but maybe I can make this work.

    In a Democracy, I could sit around and await a vote on the work I have to do to see if I can win even though the Constitution of My Home does not guarantee me a vote on anything at all.
    In fact, it is understood and implied in our constitution that “if mammy ain’t happy, pappy won’t be happy either”.

    Now in thought, if I could swing it and say that the shop outback had a higher population than the house, e.g. the squirrels, a couple of rats and an opossum, I might be able to get at least 2 electoral college votes compared to the house’s population of just 2 hence it’s 1 electoral vote.
    But then, even if I won the electoral vote, my wife possesses the pragmatic vote which trumps my vote every time even if our Home Constitution said I could which it doesn’t.

    In short, Yeah, I gotta get things done.
     
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  10. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Supreme Member
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    Now Lulu, let’s be civil if you please. I am not, nor ever will be a hypocrite and I am sure I am among the majority. If Hillary had won, I may not have liked it but no, I would not be screaming my head off and demanding that the electoral college be abolished.
    I happen to like the substance of the way the president is decided no matter who fills the slot.

    A bit off topic but I never heard one person threaten to leave the U.S. if Hillary had won. There may have been a few, but I hadn’t heard of them.
    Could it be that all the folks who threatened to leave and didn’t are the hypocrites?
     
    #40
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
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  11. Lulu Moppet

    Lulu Moppet Veteran Member
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    Sorry you took this personally, Bobby. You are definitely NOT a hypocrite. I was generalizing/
     
    #41
  12. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Supreme Member
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    Yeah, I know. I can play too and the sandbox is big enough. :)
     
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  13. Peter Renfro

    Peter Renfro Veteran Member
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    I would like to see the EC modified. I live in NY. 62 counties went for trump. The city and 5 upstate counties went for Clinton. Not a single vote in the 62 counties meant a thing. Winner takes all must be abolished and the electors need to be mandated to vote their districts wishes.
     
    #43
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  14. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Supreme Member
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    The state could do that without changing the basis for the Electoral College, but they won't.
     
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  15. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    That can be done at the state level. Some states split their electoral votes according to various formulas. Maine has only four electoral votes. The winner of the popular vote gets two electoral votes. The other two are awarded by district. There are two districts. 2016 was the first time that Maine has actually split its vote, however. Clinton got three, and Trump got one.
     
    #45
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