Normally I would be asleep,but since I am awake -here goes. Bob is merely asking questions about faith based religion. He sounds to me, like many of us who deep down question our own feelings. I like Beth and many others was raised as a Southern Baptist. Early on I fought that religion, and became numerous other religions,until I settled on being Episcopalian,in my early teens. As I matured, I found fault with that also. There are numerous organized religions,and that for me is the issue. A label. Bottom line is,I do not believe in any religion. They all are more about money, and power than the teachings of Christ. I like Bob, question the Why's in many situations, how can this happen, why did it happen. Who is with the tiny infant being thrown to the dumpster? What peace did a dying victim of crime have in their final moments? Why is certain things God's will? Free will, then are all things free will? And why should my free will, affect another life? Why are some saved from death or harm,and others are not This is Gods will? I have never truly understood it all,but attempted many times at trying. Why are some so faith based and others so, defiant against belief ? WWJD, I can not even begin to live up to that quote. I tried, many times, but a part of me just will not conform. Each religion,set up by ma,n not God has their own set of rules as to how you should live and believe. I do not believe in any of them. Now back to Bob and his questions - the answer is what do You believe- meaning whatever you feel the answer is possibly is correct for you. Each person have their own comprehension,and understanding of the Bible,and it is based on what they were taught to believe,until at some time like many of us begin to ask questions. The Bible is a history of the origin of man and Earth. It has teachings as to how and Try to live a better life,even though you may be overcome with death and destruction. Okay, i am going to stop here, and get my first cup of coffee.Feel like i am rattling on. Bob thank you for starting this thread, I think it was needed.. I hope we all can express our views with out becoming mean, and bitter to each other,because none of us have the answers.
God has never been about religion...He is about relationship, love, and family. He wants a relationship with everyone He has created and He has made the way to have that relationship with Him through the sacrifice of His Son Jesus Christ to wash away the unholiness of our sins so that we can come before our heavenly Father as His beloved sons and daughters. This gift of forgiveness and redemption from our sins is a free gift...but the choice has to be ours to either choose it or not. Since Adam and Eve sinned and were sent out of the Garden of Eden and satan was booted out of Heaven for trying to take God's throne for himself...we have gone from living in the Paradise that God intended for His children...to a world of chaos and evil...ruled by satan at this time. One day Jesus Christ will come back and take back what is rightfully His but for now God keeps giving His creation more time to choose Him and the relationship He wants with each of us. It is because we live in a fallen world where both good and evil exist and everyone has free will to choose to do good or evil that there is so many problems in the world. Yes, there are those innocents that evil falls on and I agree that I can see no way how they deserve this nor can I understand why God allows this to happen. But I know God is right there when His children are suffering and I know they are with Him now and free forever from anything they might have experienced on this fallen earth. One day those who have chosen to accept Jesus as their Savior and Redeemer will live eternally in a perfect paradise where there is no more suffering or evil of any kind. That day is promised to all of God's beloved sons and daughters. While we are still on this fallen earth our heavenly Father gives us gifts of faith, love, mercy, grace, strength, courage, etc. ....everything we need to get through each day. As we turn to Him each day talking to Him just as we would our spouse, family members, and friends...we develop deeper intimacy with Him and our faith and trust in Him grows the more time we spend with Him. God loves us and it is never His intention to do evil to us. Any evil comes from satan who hates us because we are God's creation and if he can't have us he will do anything to deceive, destroy, steal, and kill us. But if we have chosen to become God's beloved sons and daughters satan might be able to destroy our earthly bodies...but he can never have our souls which belong to God. If your looking for religion then that is what you will find... but if you are looking for God...then ask Him to show Himself to you and come into your heart and begin a relationship with you. If you are sincere God will answer you with His love and gift of salvation and eternal life and you will know a relationship beyond your wildest dreams or hopes.
It is extremely difficult to explain in a small post what takes most people a lifetime to understand simply because the focus is nearly always based on the macro level. Nearly every sect of every religion centers around an eternal and infinite entity but keep themselves busy focusing on the finite embodiment of the spirit in a biological form. Most religious teachers teach what to do, what to eat, whom to marry, whom to be charitable to, how to dress, etc and of note, most of the focus is on the human bodily existence but says very little of who we really are. They deal with the flesh for the majority of time and little on the essence of humanity because that’s what they understand the most. When we say that we are given free will, it is true and we can see it all around us; Man’s charities to man and man’s inhumanity to man. When we see mercies and blessings, we say how wonderful God is and when the opposite occurs many question the existence of God for a merciful god would not allow it to happen. If we follow that later train of thought then death itself at the end of 70 or so years of bodily existence is indeed, an act of a very unmerciful god for indeed, we should be allowed to live in this earthly form forever. Of such is the human experience based on a human anxiety brought about by the lack of a substantial amount of visible knowledge of that which is based on faith. Note: Case 1. It’s by faith that I know that I have an atomic structure because certainly, I have never seen my own atoms but they do indeed exist and even more exists as I peruse the sciences that are being presently produced even on the quantum level. Case 2. Thought / consciousness cannot be measured by any means known to man but yet, thought and consciousness exist. Case 3. Everyone fears or is anxious concerning that which little or nothing is known. Denying the existence of the object of fear is a mechanism some use to fight that fear but it doesn’t extinguish the object of appreciation itself. It’s all from a macro prospective and gives no credit for anything other than what we see and nothing in regard to what cannot be physically seen or measured. When I die, my very footprints on this earth will cease to exist. There will be a physical void where I once stood. The biological me, will no longer be among the biologically living. In the infinite sense, the blink of an eye of 70+ years of earthly existence will no longer be. But I, as the chief factor of what God created, that which is the real me, a spirit, will live. For me, when I started understanding that this biological “machine” that I presently employ is only a temporary device and not one meant for an eternal home, I also started understanding that whatever I may experience at the present is only a whisp in relation to time itself. It’s super temporary and a virtual speck of what is to come. Note: I could go on writing volumes dissecting the Bible verse by verse and very favorably so but in this particular venture let me end with one simple statement: Nowhere in the Bible is it written that God has Ever killed the spirit of anything or anyone He has created. However violently or peacefully, this bodily mechanism dies, but the spirit rather, the actual entity that employed that body.....lives. It is however, written about what God’s plans for the destinies of each spirit is and how those destinies are determined.
@Beth Gallagher Answers regarding religious belief, or just answers in general? I feel that latter one fits my own temperament. Still searching for answers at 77! Frank
@Babs Hunt What a beautifully written post!! I was fortunate to have a Jewish Mom, who converted before I was born, but still received wonderful teaching. In Hebrew, Elohim translates as GOD, big and powerful. Adonai translate as Lord, your personal relationship God. In reading the Old Testament, you can tell the relationship the person has with God based on the name they use. David used Adonai/Lord, because he knew God personally. This is why Jesus never called Himself Elohim or GOD. He was called Adonai, your personal Lord. Without knowing the Adonai,/Lord you will never begin to understand the Elohim/God. Same God, but different positions so to speak. People judge GOD based on personal perception, rather than through a relationship the Lord who can clear up their questions. Hope I explained that so it isn't confusing. You obviously know Him as Adonai.
Since this thread has replies I'd like to bring it back to the bible & bible stories. Quotes from my post all relating to bible stories From about age 5 until late teens I truly believed during those years the bible was a true explanation of how mankind began. No reason to try to explain all the stories that for me defy logic so I'll use two examples. Bible version.https://creation.com/6000-years year Noah another favorite of mine to question. There are numerous references to "GOD" as being merciful. https://activechristianity.org/38-verses-mercy-compassion Not believing & not having blind faith doesn't lend itself to discussions or questioning the contradictions between science & the bible. *************************************************************************** There is no way I'm trying to convince anyone to abandon what they believe. I question what is written in the bible. Both Beth Gallagher & Gloria Mitchell get it. Questioning why the bible conflicts with what we can see with our eyes & feel with our emotions not popular & not typically discussed. from Don Alaska's post Quote There are many concepts of "god" in the world. You seem to only consider one, @Bob Kirk. one of several in the bible 1. Deuteronomy 4:35,39 — Unto thee it was shown, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. (39) Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else. Deviating from writings in the bible are expected. Questions for you. Are Greek Gods what you meant by limiting? The bible is explicit so what God or Gods do you consider creators of heaven & earth? Babs Hunt Quote we have gone from living in the Paradise that God intended for His children...to a world of chaos and evil...ruled by satan at this time. Yet we both sit in comfortable homes, eating well & enjoying what good there is in our lives. continuing Quote While we are still on this fallen earth our heavenly Father gives us gifts of faith, love, mercy, grace, strength, courage, etc. ....everything we need to get through each day. I'm questioning the writings in the bible. What you post coinsides with the bible in Psalm 145:17 English Standard Version The LORD is righteous in all his ways and kind in all his works. If you would go back to my post in the description of heaven thread. Look at the picture of that child read the article. Does what you see conflict with Psalm 145:17 ? No quote from Bobby Cole The reason for not quoting parts of his post, IMO the post deals with ideas that are theoretical or representational. Theory The physical human body is supposed to represent God's image. Is there doubt that prehistoric mankind existed? Ok for those that do doubt and believe the bible story of Noah. Noah & his family are a single source I question how it's possible to have the variety in size, shape, color & DNA of earths population now. Good & evil a clash between God & a fallen angel. The story of Adam & Eve a popular story to introduce Satan as evil & the cause of loss of blissful existence. Several references written in the bible allude to God being omnipotent. omnipotent adjective 1. (of a deity) having unlimited power; able to do anything. noun 1. God. I question why would when having unlimited power & able to do anything be tolerated? Free will has been used to explain the clash. Does not prohibiting evil & the seduction of Eve mean God is not omnipotent? Then there is heaven. Where exactly is that? Supposedly God created heaven & earth. Where was God & the us that is associated with the story of Adam & Eve when all that was created? WHEW!!! that was long Lots of questions about bible stories that go unanswered. Obviously I had a lot of time to read & think about the posts that diddn't address bible stories or writings in the bible that generate questions.
@Bob Kirk Each person has their own questions for any variety of reasons. I had mine at 22 years of age. I wrote them down, put them in an envelope, looked up and told Him 'If you are real, you've got mail'. I got all those answers and more in a way I least expected it. Within 6 months, I never had to question Him again. I could rest in the fact that not only was He real, but He took the time to read my letter and respond. Guess what I'm trying to say is, no one can answer your questions because the words used may not even be the root of why you are asking or what is really perplexing you. So, why not just ask Him?
@Bob Kirk I don't hang my hat on Old Testament Bible stories much. I find them instructional, moral (sometimes) stories that pertain to the history of the Hebrews and the Nation of Israel, both old and new. New Testament stories are much more relevant to me and, unlike the Old testament, were not passed down in oral form for generations prior to being written although they do differ somewhat from one another. I wasn't really taking about Greek gods or Roman gods particularly, but Hinduism is a similar polytheistic religion, as is Shinto in Japan. I was more thinking of the various concepts of a monotheistic god. A Deist concept has a god who is a creator but nothing more. "He" created the world and set it going, then left it to run on its own. It has been compared to winding up a clock and turning it on, allowing it to function as it will. In past posts you have referred to a god who is a slavemaster. I will tell you I am the slave of no being even if I am within their power. It is one reason I cannot accept Calvinism or the writing of John Knox, or the concept of the "Elect", who are chosen by God to be saved and are predestined to go to Heaven regardless of what they do, while others are condemned to Hell no matter what kind of life they lead. The Predestination of mankind means that free will means nothing and takes all meaning out of life. It also removes the idea of being charitable because you choose to do so. According to Calvin, the Levite and the priest were destined to leave the assault victim by the road while the Samaritan was destined by God to do a good deed. It makes absolutely no sense. When R.C. Sproul, a Calvinist theologian in the Presbyterian tradition was asked why he preached and taught when nothing he did really made any difference, his answer was simply, "My Lord instructed me to do so." That isn't good enough for me. It means my life would be meaningless and, in a sense, I would be a puppet as Dr. Sproul believes himself to be.
@Bess Barber I have been asking questions such as we speak of for most of my adult life. I have received no answers. That fact is either because the questions of a heretic are intentionally unanswered, or the answers cannot penetrate my deafness. Frank
I seriously like your post Don and I have just one or two additions that might be a little helpful to some folks. The central theme in the anthology called the Bible is on Jesus. Each part of the Old Testament compilation is focused on the events in the absolute and the proposed genealogy of the upcoming birth of Jesus. Absolute because we see the genealogy of Mary and proposed because we also see the genealogy of Joseph. Even though the direct sire of Jesus was not Joseph, both parent’s genealogies are linked back to the first couple mentioned in Genesis. The New Testament shows the arrival of Jesus and the prophecies fulfilled concerning his birth, life, death and resurrection, the entrance of grace and of course, the unfulfilled prophesy of His return. There are those who believe every single word of each part of the anthology and there are those who try to reason away parts of it but as long as one keeps the central theme intact then I believe all else will start to make more sense as time and study reveals it. In a somewhat slim way, it doesn’t matter what happened in the days of the Garden of Eden, Noah, the Tower of Babel or even Solomon’s Temple. What does matter is the focus point which is Jesus the Christ on which the anthology in it’s entirety is based upon.