Can You Pull The Trigger?

Discussion in 'Philosophy & Psychology' started by Faye Fox, Jan 7, 2021.

  1. John Brunner

    John Brunner Senior Staff
    Staff Member Senior Staff Greeter Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    May 29, 2020
    Messages:
    25,226
    Likes Received:
    37,038
    I'm the same way. Generally speaking, critters lack intent. But you have to protect your livestock, since they are defenseless. Roosters and geese are different...nasty buggers.
     
    #16
    Faye Fox and Frank Sanoica like this.
  2. John Brunner

    John Brunner Senior Staff
    Staff Member Senior Staff Greeter Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    May 29, 2020
    Messages:
    25,226
    Likes Received:
    37,038
    Although the stats are way less skewed, law enforcement (FBI, local police, etc) have a very low hit rate when firing their weapons on the job. They aren't necessarily shooting indiscriminately as in war, but adrenaline + being shot at are not exactly target practice conditions...and that applies to all of us.
     
    #17
    Frank Sanoica likes this.
  3. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
    Staff Member Senior Staff Greeter Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    25,486
    Likes Received:
    45,664
    Plus, they are not necessarily good shots. When I qualified at the police range, using the same criteria as their SWAT team, I scored better than about half of them, and other than a little bit of practice before going to the testing area, I hadn't shot a gun in more than ten years. I did more shooting as a teenager than I have since.
     
    #18
    Frank Sanoica and John Brunner like this.
  4. John Brunner

    John Brunner Senior Staff
    Staff Member Senior Staff Greeter Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    May 29, 2020
    Messages:
    25,226
    Likes Received:
    37,038
    Yeh, there is that.

    Most of them never, ever pull their weapons on the job. I've purchased a number of mint-condition police trade-ins (usually when some bureaucrat decides that "Sigs are out/Glocks are in") whose only sign of use was holster wear. Police may shoot annually (if that) to re-qualify. Of course, SWAT is different...or it should be. But those guys are more "overwhelming force" than they are snipers.

    I commented elsewhere that for years I used to shoot 2-3 times a week at the NRA range. I shot more rounds in a typical month than the vast majority of LEOs do in their entire careers...but I still don't wanna test my accuracy if someone were shooting back. ;)
     
    #19
    Frank Sanoica likes this.
  5. Herb Durant

    Herb Durant Very Well-Known Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2020
    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    366
    "War is very simple, direct and ruthless it takes a simple, direct and ruthless man to wage war "
    General George S. Patton United States Army
     
    #20
  6. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Supreme Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2016
    Messages:
    9,297
    Likes Received:
    10,629
    @John Brunner

    Regarding the killing of others' animals: In the State of Arizona it is legal to kill any predator attacking one's livestock. When we rented a house outside Phoenix, very rural, a "biker" lived in a house nearby, adjacent to another house rented by a single lady from back East who owned a vicious and large German Shepard. The biker's wife raised fancy chickens; he told the Easterner if her dog attacked his wife's chickens, he would kill it. It did, and he shot it, carried it up and deposited it's carcass on her doorstep. She called the cops. Cop interviewed both parties, explained to the woman the biker was within his rights, though he could have charged the guy with discharging a firearm within city limits, but did not.

    I wondered if the law applied to rustlers of cattle.

    Frank
     
    #21
    Ed Wilson and John Brunner like this.
  7. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Supreme Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2016
    Messages:
    9,297
    Likes Received:
    10,629
    @John Brunner

    In the scenario of me encountering an armed intruder inside my home, I surely hope that, if a gun is pointed in any way menacingly at me, I will get off the first, and only shot. If he has a knife, bludgeon, pick-ax, shovel, or shillelagh, or the like, it is only under specific circumstance that law allows shooting him: the threatened must be IN IMMINENT and IMMEDIATE danger, not twenty feet apart, and must truthfully fear his life is in danger. Do not EVER shoot a retreating assailant, especially not in the back.

    The "House is Castle" concept excepts this to an extent, and is law in some areas, such as NM. One state has carried it over to include one's vehicle.

    Frank
     
    #22
    John Brunner likes this.
  8. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Supreme Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2016
    Messages:
    9,297
    Likes Received:
    10,629
    @Herb Durant

    I thought he was quoted as saying "War is Hell"!

    His quote you posted seems to mean ALL men trained to carry out orders of war are simple, direct, and ruthless; with that I would argue with Patton. He lives on in my memory as having committed, along with his fellow officers Eisenhower and MacArthur, the treasonous act of attacking U.S. War Veterans at the infamous (and historically down-played) Hooverville slaughter.

    Frank
     
    #23
    Ken Anderson likes this.
  9. Herb Durant

    Herb Durant Very Well-Known Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2020
    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    366
    I will agree to disagree but General Patton deserves his place of honor in American history.
    Just a side note I'm not American .
     
    #24
    Frank Sanoica likes this.
  10. John Brunner

    John Brunner Senior Staff
    Staff Member Senior Staff Greeter Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    May 29, 2020
    Messages:
    25,226
    Likes Received:
    37,038
    I had a friend in a similar situation in a park with a dog going after his kid. The thing was illegally off-leash, he protected his child, the owner called the cops, and the cop explained the harsh facts of life to her. I hate to see dogs pay the price for irresponsible owners.

    Regarding hustlers: I don't believe you can shoot people in order to defend property anywhere in this nation (with what seems to be a narrowly defined exception in Texas)...that the life of even a thief is valued higher than the value of "stuff." I've heard arguments that the "stuff" is not free...that it took some of your life to earn the wages to purchase it. So the theft is of something dearer than just "stuff."

    I can find no specific exceptions for stealing livestock. There is draft legislation kicking around Florida for the use of deadly force against looters, but it's not the law yet (if the internet is telling the truth.)
     
    #25
  11. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Supreme Member
    Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    13,671
    Likes Received:
    26,220
    I do submit to one and all that no one who has not experienced using a firearm against another human being really knows what they will do in a confrontation.
    Every scenario a person could imagine can be played over and over in the mind but yet at that crucial point of shoot /no shoot, no one knows for sure.
    Psychologically I believe that the first time, and hopefully that only time, a person fires upon another is from instinct however practiced or unpracticed that might be.
    Note: By “practiced” I mean the individuals who have taken courses with their firearm and practiced scripted situations whereby a kill or no kill determination has to be met.

    Every soldier in war on both sides knows that his enemy intends to kill him. The best offense is a better defense against the enemy.
    Unless a soldier is specifically trained for direct offensive action against an enemy, the death of an adversary by a common infantryman comes by way of defending his own life.
    When there is no enemy left on the battle ground, there is no one left to kill you.
     
    #26
    Herb Durant likes this.
  12. James Hintze

    James Hintze Very Well-Known Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2020
    Messages:
    513
    Likes Received:
    502
    I agree, but I'm afraid that the current gun fetish shows us that we have many fellow citizens who really would like to shoot someone. The "Stand your Ground" legislation in several states, including my Florida, supports that fetish.
     
    #27
    Bobby Cole likes this.
  13. Faye Fox

    Faye Fox Veteran Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2019
    Messages:
    6,086
    Likes Received:
    12,264
    With the recent coup overthrow of our government and the now one-sided control of power, state laws will be overruled by the Federal government and the Constitution will be modified to suit their agenda. Any right you have to defend yourself will be lost. With that in mind let's go a step further...

    Federal agents break down your door, do you start shooting and go down in a blaze of glory or do you let them arrest you, beat you, and take you to prison or a death camp. This is soon to be a reality as those in control are OPENLY talking about rounding up the opposition and making them pay for their crimes. What will you do? Can you pull the trigger? The only difference in our situation and the Nazis take over is many in the USA still have guns.
    Another difference is the government has armed drones and can just destroy any house or town they desire and we have no defense. All those compounds full of guns and ammo will be vaporized if they pose a threat. This is all of course if the military leaders obey their commands and don't turn on them and take our country back. I fear in all this mess, China will take control and we are all headed to hard labor or death.

    Kill or be killed, what say ye?
     
    #28
  14. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Supreme Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2016
    Messages:
    9,297
    Likes Received:
    10,629
    @Herb Durant

    He does, and I agree.

    Frank
     
    #29
  15. John Brunner

    John Brunner Senior Staff
    Staff Member Senior Staff Greeter Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    May 29, 2020
    Messages:
    25,226
    Likes Received:
    37,038
    Facts do not back that up.

    People have been saying that for years, as gun ownership increases while murders decrease.
     
    #30
    Frank Sanoica and Bobby Cole like this.

Share This Page