More To Dying Than Meets The Eye

Discussion in 'Philosophy & Psychology' started by Beth Gallagher, Jan 4, 2021.

  1. John Brunner

    John Brunner Senior Staff
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    My prior pastor would tell the story of his father's lingering death and how his father would say "my suffering brings me closer to God." No further details were forthcoming.
     
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  2. John Brunner

    John Brunner Senior Staff
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    A conversation in another thread made me think of how corpses are universally referred to as "remains."
    The implication (if not outright statement) is self-evident.
     
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  3. Lon Tanner

    Lon Tanner Supreme Member
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    I Worry Not About Death or my so called Salvation. What will be will be.
     
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  4. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Supreme Member
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    I'm sure dying can be painful in some cases...but with Hospice everything that can be done to keep you pain free and anxiety free, etc will be done for you.

    I was with my Mom as she passed to eternal life with our Creator and her passing was pain free and peaceful. Although it was a sorrowful time for us left behind...it was also so beautiful to see her leave this World so at peace.

    I have read that a person pretty much dies the way they lived. If they are a "kicking and screaming" type while they are alive then they will usually leave this world the same way. etc. While those who are laid-back leave this world easily and peacefully. A person in denial about dying also has a harder time passing. Basically whatever personality you bring to life...you will also bring to death.
     
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  5. John Brunner

    John Brunner Senior Staff
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    I completely understand. When I meet those who have 100% assurance, I cannot decide if that is how God wants us to be, or if they are way outta line and chock-full of unsightly hubris. Personally, I find it to be off-putting, but that's possibly my own stuff. But who knows?

    It all makes me think of the Puritans, who I understand believed that your salvation was predestined and there was not one darned thing you could do in life to change it. This gets at the core of my issue with Christianity: a "loving God" who puts us in a state of fear and uncertainty. The target is not clear, or even humanly attainable. It's motivation through pain-avoidance. "Profess your faith so you don't fry in Hell forever." It smells of The Inquisition. Modern churches have migrated from "fire & brimstone" to "the love of Jesus," but that's more of a marketing shift over the past few decades than a change in honest theological interpretation. Christianity has been around for 2,000 years and there's still no consistent answer. Yet we're told that Jesus is the only way, which forces all true believers to negate all other religions out of concern for their immortal souls.

    I forget who I was listening to who stated that 99% of churches (and the way we worship) completely miss the point. We are to live in the love of Christ. Period. The fear of the eternal consequences should we "fall short" should not even be a fleeting thought. Philosophically I could agree. But I think both the Old and the New Testaments say otherwise. I wonder what a Bible would look like with only the "promises" in it and the threats redacted. Maybe it would actually lead more people to Christ if the coercion were absent. But here is where we go down the rabbit hole of being God's children. As children, do we need to be occasionally reminded of the negative consequences?

    Perhaps it all boils down to a willful state of heart, but the question still remains "What is the still-compliant lower limit for we imperfect humans?"
     
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    Last edited: Jun 4, 2021
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  6. John Brunner

    John Brunner Senior Staff
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    There are lots of moving parts to this.

    -My mother was a nasty person, but had dementia when she died. She had no idea what was going on.

    -My younger brother was a great guy who would do anything for anybody, and he slowly suffocated to death from lung cancer with all his faculties intact.

    I can say with 100% assurance that my brother did not deserve that.
    I'll leave judgement of my mother escaping suffering to a higher power.
     
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  7. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Supreme Member
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    This goes back to knowing what the church you attend believes. Knox and Calvin both believed in Predestination and the denominations they founded followed those beliefs. Many can't get a separation between "predestined" to be as God created you and God being an "omniscient" being. Predestination has always horrified me. If that philosophy were true, then those who believe that way should be against prisons and should just accept when someone they love is killed by another, as the perpetrator is just fulfilling God's will for them and putting them in prison is just attempting to thwart the will of God. Of course, the believers have all kinds of rationalizations for the belief, but I think it is just that they try to reduce God to what they can understand. I think Jesus was pretty clear on the issue and said you choose to do what you do. Paul threw some confusion into the issue with his concept of "The Elect", but I guess one can choose to be Christian or Pauline.
     
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  8. Beth Gallagher

    Beth Gallagher Supreme Member
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    That sounds like a horrible way to die; I can't imagine not having the tumor removed or something.
     
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  9. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Supreme Member
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    I never understood that she made that choice, but it was her choice to make. She said she wanted to die "intact' whatever that meant to her.
     
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  10. Beth Gallagher

    Beth Gallagher Supreme Member
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    I suppose. All I can say is, I want my passing to be as comfortable as possible and slowing suffocating doesn't fit my plan. :D
     
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  11. Beth Gallagher

    Beth Gallagher Supreme Member
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    https://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2013/11/19/245996903/embracing-life-and-death

    "But no matter your (or my) beliefs and commitments, death is waiting. That means the real question before us today is not what happens after we die but, instead, how do we approach death now. In that spirit, allow me to introduce you to Philip Gould.

    Diagnosed with cancer of the esophagus in 2008, Gould made it to 2011, when he was given just three months to live. It was at that point that filmmaker Adrian Steirn began documenting Gould's astonishing open-eyed journey into the "death-zone," as he called it. Watch it. I promise you it will be the most important nine minutes of your day." -- Adam Frank


     
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  12. John Brunner

    John Brunner Senior Staff
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    This whole self-awareness thing and knowledge that our time here is not infinite is both a blessing and a curse.
     
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  13. Martha Ferris

    Martha Ferris Well-Known Member
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  14. Martha Ferris

    Martha Ferris Well-Known Member
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    Everything is made up of energy. Our thoughts are electrochemical reactions. Our every heart beat is electrochemical. We produce energy and our every atom is held together by energy. Our energy (electricity) can be measured by EKGs and EEGs to name two. Energy cannot be created or destroyed but it can be changed into a different kind of energy. If energy makes up everything then is it so far fetched that we can learn to connect to the energy of others? Is the state of prayer perhaps providing that connection? Is not the use of "psychic abilities" connecting to the universal web of energy that makes up everything? Are we self limiting by not understanding how we are a part of everything through the commonality of energy?
     
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  15. Hedi Mitchell

    Hedi Mitchell Supreme Member
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    @Martha Ferris - Alrighty then, I must say that is a fresh approach to things. I am going to ponder over that. ;)
     
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