She’s a nice lady trying to figure things out and to be sure, there’s a lot of people who have some difficulty figuring the “predestined” part out. In the end, it doesn’t matter what conclusion we come up with because it is as it is said, our wisdom is as foolishness to God. Some folks get so stuck on it and other verses that they say “well, since God knows the future then why should I bother”? It’s a paradox for sure. There’s even those who get so radical and belligerent about what they think and believe they understand that some are kind of like a fully thinking baby saying “well, my mom and dad know that I’m going to eventually start to walk so I’ll fool ‘em and not walk”. Then of course is a “supposed” antithesis to free will in the story of Jonah. He was commanded to go to Nineveh but he was afraid to do that so he tried to trick things around thinking God wouldn’t notice. God noticed. The thing here is that the story is more about having a one on one relationship with God than anything else. Jonah availed himself to do what God wanted him to do, God commanded, Jonah tried to side step, God got him where he was supposed to go and protected him before, during and after he did what he was supposed to do. Manipulation? Kinda. We’ll notice that God prepared a “big fish” AFTER Jonah was in the water, not before. It was Jonah’s free will that got him tossed off the ship. God’s will that Jonah would get to Nineveh and preach. God won.
To counter Frank's misguided conclusion, I'll add: We're justified in God's eyes by accepting Christ as our Lord and Savior. With that, we invite the Holy Spirit into our hearts, spending the rest of our lives becoming more Christlike - a long process called sanctification. There's no forced manipulation in the process. The Atheist is free to reject God and serve himself throughout this short, temporary lifetime. The Christian gets strength and help from God to live right in this lifetime and prepare for the real, eternal life to come.
@Joseph Carl "To counter Frank's misguided conclusion" "The Atheist is free to reject God and serve himself" In the eyes of YOUR LORD, you MUST be willing to accept and not ridicule, nor detriment others' beliefs: Jesus would surely view your demeanings in that way. If "FRANK" be "misguided", that opinion stems from your own inability to accept that others believe differently than you do, that inability being a most certain sign of "selling the disbeliever". My grandfather encountered one of you at his front door attempting to sell religion, for a price of course. That individual was told to quickly leave, or be thrown down the stairs! Frank, misguided regarding "eternal life", poor guy.
No. The question presupposes a superhuman entity with human qualities of language and psychic ability to know what others are thinking and ability to understand the language of the thinker. This doesn't make sense to me.
D'Ellyn, allow me to offer a few points that might add up to a rational explanation, given certain assumptions. If God did create the entire universe and all life as we know it, then such a feat would require immeasurable power and knowledge. The presence of mathematical order that we observe in virtually everything around us testifies to this knowledge. One of the laws of information science states that information always comes from a mind. Thus, the DNA that is observed in all plant and animal life around us must have originated from a mind. Since there are no evolutionary physical processes of chemical reactions that can explain our known possession of a mind, a supernatural cause seems necessary. If God made us in his own image as the Bible states, then he would be the source of our mind. It seems reasonable to me that any supernatural being capable of designing and creating my mind and the world I live in, would certainly have the ability to know the thoughts that come through that mind - just as a computer designer and programmer would be able to know and understand the data originating from that computer.
We should see more Marci Miller stories in this lifetime, maybe then, redemption, is not so far away. The journey of salvation is one of internal change. Change is effected in us when we become, through Christ, awakened to God's presence and love for us. Only when you experience it you will know the difference. Well Frank, if someone believes differently than you and feels like relating their story why would you call it horse feathers?? Yes, freedom of speech factor, but one tends to think you got manipulated in to thinking her way and then got pulled away.
@Susan Paynter I am perhaps too "up-front". If I find claims being made to strike me as being "horse-feathers", I label them as such. Claims needing, but completely lacking, proof are horse feathers, simple enough. Frank
@Frank Sanoica Each to their own, Frank. When one reaches a state of enlightenment, in most instances, only the person who experiences it, feels it. So there is nothing to prove to anyone.
It’s still a no from me. I don’t accept your assumptions nor the rationale that proceeds from them @Joseph Carl . I’m fine with you believing it. An it harm none, do as ye will.
@Susan Paynter What, then, constitutes "enlightenment"? Evidently this aura has failed me thus far. Would I gain personally in some way to pursue it? How would I do that? Such change would necessitate my undoing ALL I have learned to believe in, and ALL I have learned not to believe in. I'd be an empty shell......lost. Frank