Don't Call Me Ma'am

Discussion in 'Evolution of Language' started by D'Ellyn Dottir, Aug 5, 2021.

  1. D'Ellyn Dottir

    D'Ellyn Dottir Very Well-Known Member
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    I know it's a gesture of respect. but it kind of makes my skin crawl. I don't like it when people engage in that kind of power differential in what should be a peer relationship, regardless if I'm the client or a service provider.

    I had a young handyman who would call me ma'am and Miss "D'Ellyn". While I appreciated the intent and the acknowledgment that my decisions were in charge, and his well-bred good manners in such language, there was also that implied old age thing in these terms. It made me feel ancient to be called ma'am. LOL

    Then there was the client of color who called me Miss "D'Ellyn" and ma'am. Both of us born in St Louis but she a decade or two younger and at the time living in Georgia, her using this honorific was very uncomfortable for me. There was an undertone of subservience to it that I didn't know how to handle except to keep asking her to just call me by name. But it was a reflex for her.

    Also, don't call me dude. LOL

    Do you have an uncomfortable reaction to certain ways others refer to you?
     
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  2. John Brunner

    John Brunner Senior Staff
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    Funny, I was just at the Verizon store yesterday and the 30-ish guy behind the counter calls me "Mr. Brunner."

    My take on this stuff is that when we are older than others, they should defer in some small social way. It's not only a sign of respect, it's also the other person envisioning a status that they have to look forward to.

    I've never told a younger person who has called me "Mr. Brunner" to call me "John." We are not peers...I am older than that person. If I try to be the peer of younger people, in essence I am telling them that they have hit peak maturity...that they shall progress no further. I won't do that to them. It's abusive, and it's not true. They are calling me "Mr. Brunner" or "Sir" for a reason, and I think that it's appropriate for them to do it and for me to embrace it.

    This is somewhat a sore spot with me in our culture, for a lot of reasons.
     
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  3. D'Ellyn Dottir

    D'Ellyn Dottir Very Well-Known Member
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    That's an interesting perspective @John Brunner. I hadn't thought about the reach for peer status as abusive. That's something good to consider. I do agree with a little deference being nice if only a bit of good mannered courtesy, especially in today's world.

    Perhaps my discomfort is more about the acknowledgment that I'm NOT their age peer, even when I don't feel much older than they are.

    Also, don't call me Mrs. Ugh. That's my mother. And she's dead. I know I'm not that old. And my identity is never in context with my marital status. LOL
     
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  4. Marie Mallery

    Marie Mallery Veteran Member
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    \

    We were southerners but mama said those titles came from the madam and sirs of the old country spoken by the serfs. She nor our grandparents born in mid 1800s used the term,but most just consider it being a respectful way to address to your elders.I used it when it was expected of me by southern elders.
     
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  5. Al Amoling

    Al Amoling Veteran Member
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    Years ago I was working ar home and I answered the phone. Well the woman on the other end about died when in response to her "is your mother home" I said "my mother is dead"
     
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  6. John Brunner

    John Brunner Senior Staff
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    Perhaps "abusive" was a bridge too far. I can do that sometimes.

    We have a strange culture where older people want to be the peers of younger people, and it's just not right for either party. Remember when Facebook started losing young users as soon as their parents discovered it? They don't want us in their circle.¹

    I think another use of putting us on notice that we are not their peers is drawing boundaries. There are lots of reasons they do not refer to us the same way they do their friends.

    I think we have different roles to play at different stages of our lives. We miss out on opportunities when we rebel against what I believe to be the natural order of things. It's kinda sad when those of us with the most life experience seem to be somewhat dissatisfied to the point we'll encroach on others (just a general thing, certainly not directed at you.) Again, one of my major issue with out culture.

    Regarding your "Missus" thing...that is one thing men don't have to deal with. We were both around when "Mizz" (Ms.) came into being because of that. I can understand not wanting to be identified by one's marital status. I wouldn't want it.

    ¹I recently bought an Apple Smart Watch in part to have as a Life Alert device. My first thought was "Why are they not marketing this to the Boomer generation? They're missing out." Then I answered myself: "You know what will happen with their core market if this is seen as a geriatric device."
     
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  7. D'Ellyn Dottir

    D'Ellyn Dottir Very Well-Known Member
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    LOL @Al Amoling. I've told callers who address me as Mrs ____ in starting their sales pitch that my mother can't come to the phone because she's no longer on earth.
     
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  8. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Supreme Member
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    I was raised to know the difference between being a gentleman and not, Please, thank you, yes sir and yes ma’am were insisted upon by everyone from my dad to every teacher I have ever had including the military.
    No matter what age someone is, I will invariably use sir and ma’am when I address someone even if I know their name. I show them respect and courtesy, they do the same.

    and…(gasp). I still open doors for women and yup, I even say “yes ma’am” to my wife and offer my arm whilst walking.

    As I explained to one young and rather rough around the edges lad the other day: showing respect and having manners are not a sign of weakness. Just like a firm handshake, they are a sign that you know Exactly where you are at and confidence.
     
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  9. Faye Fox

    Faye Fox Veteran Member
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    Ma'am doesn't bother me at all. If a group of young scant-clad ladies call me Madam, then I get very uncomfortable and avoid the police.
     
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  10. Marie Mallery

    Marie Mallery Veteran Member
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    Thier is a difference between ettique,respect and manners are all according to our culture. In some ways the north and south had different types of culture.
     
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  11. Marie Mallery

    Marie Mallery Veteran Member
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    I respect whatever title they I get long as its not a bad one.
     
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  12. Beth Gallagher

    Beth Gallagher Supreme Member
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    I suppose as an old southern woman, none of the "Miss Betty", ma'am or sir bother me at all. It's just the way we were raised to show respect and I taught my children the exact same thing.

    All my life I have gone by my middle name, which has proved confusing over the years. All legal papers, IDs, etc. have my full name, which means that doctors, police officers, and anyone who doesn't know me calls me by my first name. I have finally given up and just answer to either name.
     
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  13. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    I hate it when people call me ma'am, too.
     
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  14. John Brunner

    John Brunner Senior Staff
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    Well put, Xavier ;)
     
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  15. Shirley Martin

    Shirley Martin Supreme Member
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    The first time I was called Ma'am was when I was thirty years old. It was by a teenager at Walmart. It took me days to recover from it. I still remember it so maybe I haven't recovered.
     
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