Ww2 Discussion

Back before America was attacked at Pearl Harbor, most American's were isolationist. They wanted no part of any war in Europe OR Asia. Pearl Harbor changed all of that.

When Japan cruelly invaded China, the U.S. threatened to cut off their oil supply. At that time Japan was getting most of it's oil from the U.S. Now, Japan's militarists felt that it was necessary to attack Pearl Harbor and hopefully keep, the U.S. out of the war OR at minimum, cripple us. TJapan's attack on us was the single biggest mistake Japan made.

As I study WW2, I wonder what might have happened IF Japan simply ignored U.S. threats and pushed ahead invading S.E. Asia and take oil from the East Indies ? Would the U.S. have eventually declare war on Japan anyway ? Would most U.S. citizens have changed their minds about being isolationists ?

Personally, I think that Pres. Roosevelt wouldn't have any support back home if he pushed for war , if Japan hadn't attacked Pearl Harbor.

 

Roosevelt definitely wanted us in the war, as he thought Britain would not last much longer. I tend to think he deliberately moved CincPac to Hawaii as bait, but I have no real data to support that idea. We isolated Japan and basically forced them to go to war with us just as we forced Russia and are trying to force China to bend to our will. We'll see what happens in the coming months and years, but I don't think it bodes well for us.

 

Yes, there is no question that Roosevelt knew war was inevitable. However, Congress tied his hands by forbidding shipment of war materials to Britain. Roosevelt did manage to go around Congress by developing the "Lend Lease" scheme to lend Britain destroyers in exchange for a 99 year lease on Western Atlantic ports.

I have never read anything that would even hint that Roosevelt used the transfer of CincPac as bait. But, anything is possible.

 

@Don Alaska , what do you think would have happened IF the Japanese had moved into the East Indies, to steal oil, and NOT attacked Pearl Harbor ?

 

Pure speculation of course, but I think the American people would need some reason to enter the war, and I don't think the Japanese could resist the Philippines if they hadn't hit Pearl Harbor. It was the second target hit anyway. McArthur should have been ready for them after the attack on Hawaii, but he decided to sit on his hands and allow the Japanese to annihilate the planes under his command while they sat on the runway. Douglas is lauded as a great general, but I don't think much of him. He was a master of PR, however.

 

Yes, I think that the American public wouldn't have concerned themselves with whatever the Japanese did in S.E Asia, as long as they didn't attack American possessions/military. If the Japanese had never attacked the U.S. military it would be an entirely different world today.
The Japanese needed oil, after all, and where is that oil ? The East Indies.

Also, I quite agree about MacArthur. I have always wondered why Mac didn't prepare for the inevitable Japanese invasion ? I'm no military strategist , but the last place I'd chose to defend is the Bataan Peninsula. Certainly not when he had the entire island of Luzon to choose from.

 

He just wasn't the brilliant general he is painted to be. That was a creation of his own public relations campaign.

 

In the decades past, numerous countries had colonies throughout the world. This naturally created wealth for the conquering nations. Japan desired to be one of those nations that had colonies. If they had to drive out other nations in order to take their colonies, that meant Japan had to have greater military power. Now, how to go about it ?

In S.E. Asia, there were 3 nations with colonies: Great Britain, Holland, and the U.S. Of those 3, the weakest militarily was Holland. Japan simply brushed them aside with ease. As I said before, Japan needed oil and the East Indies was where the oil was.

Why did Japan feel the need to pick a fight with the strongest... the U.S. Surely, Japan knew that the U.S. was an industrial giant. We had our own oil and various ores such as iron. But, Japan was a victim of it's own propaganda. It truly believed the U.S. was morally weak and only interested in a life of ease.
THAT was Japan's biggest mistake.

Great Britain was a naval super power and controlled Hong Kong, Singapore, and India. Great Britain, however, had it's hands full dealing with the Nazi's and thus would have presented little obstacle to the Japanese military. Besides, S.E.Asia was 1/2 a world away and distance was Japan's ally.

 

Japan knew that Roosevelt was against their aggression in Asia. We had antagonized them in a way similar to what has been done to Russia in recent years. They felt we were the only threat to their domination of the East Indies. Some felt we were to lazy and spoiled to really stand in their way. Yamamoto felt that Japan would have 6 to 9 months of free action in which to secure their holdings in Asia, after which he felt they could sue for peace and it would be accepted by the American government. Roosevelt feared that would happen too, despite the Pearl harbor attack, so he made sure to drum up racial hatred against the Japanese both here and abroad, and issued a declaration of war against Germany to make sure everything went as planned. Hitler then returned the favor, making the U.S. the only nation he declared war on in that period. That ensured we were in for the long haul. This post could go on for a while, but it would get too long. That is enough for now.

 

I'd be curious as to what you feel was Roosevelt's antagonism toward Japan, aside from banning the sale of oil and raw materials to Japan such as iron ore, tin, copper etc.?

Do you think Roosevelt didn't really care about Japan's aggression in China ? That he would have continued a series economic sanctions even if Japan withdrew from China ?

 

I believe he was very much against the aggression in China. That was the original source of the sanctions. The initial invasion of China in 1937 drew condemnation from the Roosevelt administration. Things started tightening from there. The movement into French Indochina was the icing on the cake.

 

We have pretty well exhausted the topic of WHY WW2 happened. Is there anything else about WW2 that you'd care to discuss ? This is one of my favorite subjects. Just trying to get people involved here.

 

Only a couple of folks are interested in this kind of stuff here, and one may be gone. I enjoy all kinds of political/military history, but WWI and WWII are the most interesting wars for me.

 

I wonder what the outcome would have been if after Pearl Harbour Hitler had not declared war on America as well.

PS... Churchill was relived that Japan attacked America.