Dismantling Christian Churches From The Inside

Discussion in 'Faith & Religion' started by Ken Anderson, Feb 19, 2023.

  1. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    Much has been said in the mainstream media, and even here in this forum, about the decline of Christian churches in the United States and other parts of the world. You have probably even noticed this in your own experience.

    Before you feel compelled to say it, I am not saying that every Christian church in the world has declined. I rarely deal in absolutes, and I am not so familiar with what is going on in other countries, except for what I read or see in documentaries or videos, so my comments will be largely restricted to the United States.

    Certainly, there are some huge Christian churches, generally built around a television and radio ministry and/or dynamic speakers who know how to play on emotions and bank accounts. As soon as one of these megachurches goes bust due to a scandal, another springs up.

    Again, this is not absolute. I am sure there are some very large churches that have grown up around Christian theologians who have mastered their knowledge of the Scriptures to the point that they have a lot to offer a lot of people.

    What I am mostly talking about is the neighborhood or community churches that have long been the backbone of Christian ministry throughout the country. These are the churches that have ministered to, and through whom generations of Christian families have been a part.

    These are the churches that are staggering along with a handful of members if they haven't closed already, their buildings converted to other purposes.

    The decline of Christian churches can be attributed to a lot of things, and over a long period of time. Many of these are from the outside, such as several decades, or longer, of a barely hidden government persecution of the Christian church, not by draconian methods but through more insidious means, carried out largely through government school systems. Of course, the media has had a large part in it and, more recently, Big Tech. Some of these things have been spoken of elsewhere in the forum, although not necessarily in one place.

    What I want to talk about here is the dismantling of the Christian church from the inside. This isn't a doctoral thesis, so I won't pretend to have thought of all of them, but a couple of ways in which this has come about seem clear.

    As public schools, colleges, and universities have become more secular and liberal, this is reflected in Christian colleges and seminaries as well. In part due to the government justice system, Christian educational institutions are increasingly hiring non-Christian teachers and professors. Even in the Christian college that I attended in the early 1980s, the man who taught the Covenant course (and others) made no secret of the fact that he was not a Christian, nor was he Jewish. Of those who do ascribe to Christianity, the teaching staff in Christian colleges, universities, and seminaries are becoming increasingly liberal, not politically (although that, too), but in the way that they interpret the Scriptures.

    Non-Christian and theologically liberal Christian colleges, universities, and seminaries are graduating people who are likely to be less Christian when they leave than they were when they entered.

    Viewing their positions as a career rather than a calling, these people become pastors, and many of them work their way into influential and leadership positions within their various denominations, the result being nominally Christian denominations that can no longer affirm the deity of Christ or the validity of the Scriptures as a guide to the Christian life or to the practice of the church.

    While this might appeal to those who don't want to have to live up to the teachings of the Scriptures, and would rather be free to interpret it however they wish, these churches become little more than social clubs.

    Thus, those who strongly believe in the existence and deity of God the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are no longer served by these churches, and they either band together to form new denominations, move to another church, become disillusioned with Christianity, or, increasingly, no longer attend a recognized church, although they still practice their Christianity at home or in groups. More than half of the Christians I know are no longer active in a local church.

    In a sense, rather than fighting the Christian churches from the outside, Satan is joining these churches and tearing them apart from the inside.

    In the past few years, already struggling neighborhood and community churches have further participated in their own demise through their response to the Covid virus.

    Yes, you might argue that this was imposed upon them from the outside since governors were ordering these measures, yet the Church has persevered through much greater persecution over its history. Certainly, the apostles and disciples didn't say, "Oh, the Romans say that we can't do this anymore so we'd better not meet together."

    The few churches that I am aware of that defied Covid regulations openly, or who continued to meet together secretly, are doing better now than the ones who acquiesced to the government's orders, but I don't think there were very many of them.

    Most of the Christian churches put their faith in Dr. Fauci and the government or caved into their demands.

    When the only way that someone can attend church is through online streaming media, they can find someone far more dynamic than their local pastor, and why tithe or contribute to a church that is no longer meeting together?

    Thus, the megachurches that have been doing online services for decades grew, while local churches declined.

    I work for a web directory and, for the past couple of years I have been concentrating on the regional section, so I regularly review local church websites in order to list them in our directory, and have mostly been appalled at what I have seen.

    During the time that these churches were closed by order of their respective governors (who they have elevated to the status of head of the church), many of these church websites had more about Covid than about Christ, and pretty much all of them were clearly devotees of Dr. Fauci, or unthinkingly repeating government propaganda.

    When the governors decreed that churches could reopen, their websites couldn't possibly have been less inviting. One of them retained the wording about being greeted by smiling faces while showing a photo of people wearing masks.

    Then there were the rules, the regulations, and the warnings about not going within six feet of anyone who was not a member of your immediate family, the wearing of masks, and the suspension of congregational singing. Because more than half of the available seating was left empty for purposes of spacing, members were asked to attend the virtual services instead, and many churches required people to register their attendance in advance or to sit in their cars during the service.

    I'd say that at least half of the church websites I review still send the message that we want your money but we'd rather you not attend. But then, I am working on the Michigan category, and not all states are as bad as Michigan.

    Now that the churches are open again, I think it's fair to say that a whole lot of people aren't going back. In many cases, these are people who are still Christians, but not so sure that their church is.

    There's more, but this is enough for an OP.
     
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  2. Gary O'Dan

    Gary O'Dan Well-Known Member
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    'Like a roaring lion', my brother

    2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
    King James Version

    2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

    2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

    3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

    So true

    Gotta be well grounded in one's faith

    2 Timothy 2:15 KJV
    Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
     
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  3. Jaspurr Miller

    Jaspurr Miller Well-Known Member
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    I find it quite interesting that you've seen such a shift in worshipping practices, particularly after the pandemic. I wonder if, by worshipping online during COVID restrictions, some people have decided that they no longer need to go to an actual building to worship and they are satisfied worshipping on their own, forgoing the fellowship that comes with church community. It's also possible that they've simply become lazy. Maybe it's a by-product of technology; younger people in particular embrace it more than us old folks, so worshipping online feels comfortable and familiar.

    Having said this, in some countries, like my own, the number of non-believers has been increasing in recent years, for a variety of reasons. Maybe the U.S. is heading in the same direction. I'm not sure exactly what you're concerned about...even if the numbers of Christians continue to dwindle, they will likely still be the predominant religion in North America, at for the rest of our lifetime. They may just have less clout in influencing government/legislative decisions. To me, as an atheist, this would be a good thing. No one religion in any country should have all the power.
     
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  4. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    I do miss being part of a local church, "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." -- Matthew 18:20
     
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  5. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    Probably a bit of all of these. It is nice not to have to get up and get dressed, and by not being a part of a local church, we are absolved of the responsibilities that not everyone took on, anyhow, but, during my time in various churches, I have served in various capacities, including youth minister, interim minister, deacon, Sunday School teacher, secretary, treasurer, and so on. When I was a member of one of the Baptist churches here, I was a deacon and I presided over the Wednesday night Bible studies. Now, I have all that time back, and I suppose there's something to be said for that.

    However, a functional local church provided balance, accountability, and challenges, in that, while I didn't always enjoy the responsibilities, they helped me grow.

    That should be one of the responsibilities of the local church, or, at least, a co-responsibility. I have never been one to feel that I have to agree with every tenet of the church that I am a part of, but I do have to believe that we're serving a common purpose, and I haven't seen that lately.
     
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  6. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Supreme Member
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    I couldn't have said it better....
    Church attendance is something of a habit, and when the habit is broken, folks find other things to do. Ironically, when life gets tough, people either return to church/synagogue/temple/mosque, or they move away completely feeling abandoned by God. I have mentioned female clergy in other posts, and I have noticed that the churches that accept female clergy seem to decline the fastest. I left the United Methodist denomination when they came out as pro-abortion and anti-homeschool in the 1990s, as I felt strongly that the denominations' position was not mine. We had female leadership that preached mother/father god and advocated removing father from everything and substituting "parent" instead. The church I attended literally crashed after that and was resurrected by the bishop appointing a "conventional" male minister with a family. The female pastor and the female District Superintendent were both fired from their posts.

    When I visited Australia in 2008, most of the protestant denominations had combined into a "Unity Church" or something like that, as their congregations had dwindled to the point they could no longer support themselves. The Catholics, Anglicans, and a few other "mainstream" denominations may have survived. I have not yet found anyone who believes anything like I do, so I doubt I will ever actually join a church again, but I attend a local Roman Catholic Church as a community I can understand.
     
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  7. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." -- Matthew 7:13-14

    “Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able." -- Luke 13:24
     
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  8. Jaspurr Miller

    Jaspurr Miller Well-Known Member
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    I understand. Well, at least you weren't raised in the Roman Catholic faith, which deems it a grave sin if you miss Sunday mass. It's not a pleasant feeling when you feel you're forced to attend church vs you attend because you want to. I know. I lived to tell the tale!
     
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  9. Jaspurr Miller

    Jaspurr Miller Well-Known Member
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    Evidently, some men don't like being preached to by women. You're safe from that in the RC Church.
     
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  10. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    I grew up in an Evangelical Covenant Church, but in a place and time when I was expected to be in church whenever it was open, although my dad only attended on Easter, the early morning Christmas Eve Service, or when one of us kids was on-stage doing something that embarrassed the hell out of us. My mom wouldn't hear of any of us missing a service, a youth program, or anything else. My brothers and I each took our turns cranking out the Sunday bulletin on Saturday nights, something that I spoke about in this post, and this one. The church was at the top of the hill on our road, and our house was halfway down the hill, so there was no getting out of it. Even if my mom was slipping, one of my uncles or aunts would have tracked me down if I wasn't there. I was related to pretty much everyone I knew through the eighth grade.

    I think that has as much to do with the likelihood that these churches adopted a whole lot of other liberal policies as well. Although I accept that it is Scriptural, the prohibition against women in some of these church offices is not one that I have understood. God has never felt the need to explain Himself to us to our satisfaction, but when we choose to ignore everything that we don't understand, we relegate the Scriptures to a backseat, and that's a slippery slope.
     
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  11. Jaspurr Miller

    Jaspurr Miller Well-Known Member
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    But, if you did miss a church service, it wasn't a grave sin according to doctrine, right? Sure, I attended mass because my mother expected it (and I was afraid of her), but it had a big impact on my psyche to think that if I did get away with skipping out, I would be committing a "mortal" sin, as it's called. If you're a devout Catholic, you live with a lot of fear and guilt.
     
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  12. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    No. The "Unforgivable Sin" was the only one that served that purpose, and, conveniently, no one could agree on just which sin was the Unforgivable Sin, so we were left wondering whether we had committed it or not.

    When I grew up, we were led to believe that Catholics were all going to hell, although I don't remember anyone specifically saying that. I think the Catholics believed that the Protestants were all going to hell too, so we didn't have to feel bad about that.

    In elementary school, I had a friend (one of the few of my classmates to whom I wasn't related) who was Catholic. He lived a ways away from me so we mostly saw one another in school, but he was at my house one summer when one of my aunts came over. While we were in my room, I could hear my aunt say, about my friend, "But he's Catholic, isn't he?" Since my friend could hear it too, I was glad that my mom replied with something like, "What difference does that make?" I hadn't known he was Catholic because we never talked about that stuff.
     
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  13. Jaspurr Miller

    Jaspurr Miller Well-Known Member
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    To add to my previous post, when I was a kid, I used to wonder why my Protestant friends were able to skip church services and not face the wrath of their parents or be told by their pastors that they've committed a grave sin. The answer I got from either my mom or our parish priest (I don't remember) was, ours is the one and only true church of god. This confused me further. I then wondered why any other churches and faith exist. I started questioning from an early age. LOL Oh, and we were discouraged from associating with Protestants. Couldn't figure that out, either.
     
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  14. Jaspurr Miller

    Jaspurr Miller Well-Known Member
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    Interesting that no one could agree on what constitutes "the unforgivable sin." My best guess would be denying god, maybe.
     
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  15. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    The best answer I got was similar to that, as in knowing God and then rejecting Him, except that the Apostle Peter came pretty close to that, and after having been warned.
     
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