Going to church has always been associated with a family activity with little emphasis on individual attendance ergo with the destruction of the family unit, the churches have followed. What believing families there are left, many of them are so splintered that they rarely even pray together much less dine together and go to church together. With that, some churches have opted to go along with the prevailing winds of what the growing neosociety is dictating, feeling that if they do not adapt to those new requirements they can no longer exist. Doing so has set up a state of confusion between the Word of God and the word of man and such confusion has become one the worst enemies of the church. I Cor. 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace. And as a personal note: Many churches have opted to become places of entertainment rather than a place to worship, study, grow and of conviction. It would seem that to them, it is far more important to have a great praise team playing for 30 minutes, a pastor who speaks for 10 leaving ample time to pass the plate (with the praise team playing again) somewhere in between.
This is something I've never been able to understand...different Christian denominations judging others due to differences in doctrine, or whatever reasons. They worship the same god, so why does it matter how they choose to do that? I find it rather silly.
On most issues of contention, I agree, given that most of the divisions in the Church have been over issues that were political, not theological, and of those that were theological, few were salvational. I have been a member of several different denominations, and I don't think that I have to accept every tenet of a particular church in order to have fellowship with the church. I was a member of a division of the Church of Christ that was divided over the issue of instrumental music during the church service, arguing, I think, that there was no evidence that the Early Christian Church used instruments during the worship service. I thought that, yeah, well, they were hiding in the catacombs to avoid being killed during much of that time, so a piano and an organ were probably out of the question. At the same time, I didn't care whether they played musical instruments or not, and I don't think they believed that the other side was going to hell because they did.
In the late '60s, the Catholic Church began allowing folk music during mass in an effort to attract and retain younger people. Our "folk mass" was at 11 a.m. each Sunday. I remember how appalled some of the traditional, older parishoners were that people were playing guitars on the altar and "secular" music was being sung.. The pastor took a lot of flak, but that mass was popular for years. I was a charter member of the choir and loved being part of it. So, yes, it shouldn't matter how people worship in song, whether it's rock, folk, rap or the old traditional hymns played on the pipe organ.
Yeah, music can be a part of the issue Not into funeral dirges myself A little story I penned a few years back while living up in the mountains; Didn’t happen today, yet still....it made me happy today It’ll make me happy tomorrow if I think about it A while back, wife and I went to church It’s refreshing, sometimes, to attend a church Sometimes Anyway, there was a song service I don’t sing Can’t Tried It’s not considered singing So, there I was, mouthing the words. A few rows back, a middle-aged gentleman was singing his heart out. A tenor, I believe. I also believe he was a butcher by trade. Cause he was doin’ a job of it on that song. His voice, his voice literally hurt my good ear. Seems there were several stanzas to the hymn He got louder with each one. At the last of the chorus to the last stanza I looked back... Had to There he was, tears streaming down his face. The rays of sun from the oranate windows were not shining on him Yet, His face....beamed He wasn’t a good looking guy He literally wrecked the hymn I’ve seen a lot of beauty A lot In nature, mostly But this This Was the most beautiful thing I have ever seen Since then, I too have experienced that joy There is nothing, nothing here on this earth that can match it I have a hope to revel in it one day...... for eternity
Thanks, Ken. So much there that feels true. I'm in an odd place with my new Christianity. My faith waxes or wanes and is different from day to day. I'm losing my arrogance that I've ever understood either the physical universe or the ethical universe. Both are beyond me. I've lost any feeling that my personal biblical exegesis has any validity. I started out praying for understanding. Now, instead, I pray for peace with the small sliver I do understand and ask that I not crave knowing the whole. That gnosticism is impossible and that knowing will forever slide away. Imagine a bad dream in which one is running towards a finish line that never gets closer. The more you know, the more you know what you don't know, in other words. I think some of my prayers been answered and that where I'm at is okay with the big guy. So, as a dude with a genius IQ but still a moron in important ways, I keep it simple. I pray to be a better person and to be forgiven when I'm not. I give thanks for what I've been given and pray for help to be a good warrior if I'm called to that.
I believe you meant epi-gnosis or rather full knowledge rather than gnosticism but no matter which, be of good cheer Dwight, every notable believing figure in the scriptures had the very same problems…even the Apostles. The fact that you’re still wondering about and searching for answers says a lot. In a very large way, Jesus cleared up much of the flotsam that gets in the way of seeing a clear picture by condensing everything we have to know into 2 commandments +1. Matthew 22:37-38 and John 3:7 . Love the Lord with all your heart, mind and soul and love your neighbor as yourself. And the plus one is that you must be born again. In essence, everything is between each individual and God. How big a church is, what Denomination they are, how big the praise team is or what kind of Bible we have etc is all just dressing like the Cadillac the pastor has. In the end, it all means nothing. What does mean something is your very personal relationship with God, your Father. To me, you’re seem to be running a good race Dwight.
History is shot through with "churches" that have lost the Way, and forgotten Who is supposed to be their First Love as the bible says. The Church is not a building or any denomination other than true followers of Christ. That is my understanding and although at this late stage of my life, I've only read the first two books of the bible, completely, and plan to keep reading until I have read it all. I think anyone who wants to know the truth about the bible should try reading it, I can't recommend it more since I'm amazed at what I've read so far. How the story of God and man unfolds, it's a real page-turner. I also have to add a verse that has a powerful effect on me, and keeps me seeking more and more is this one (I do recommend reading the full chapter): 1 Corinthians 2:14 New King James Version 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
I have read the Bible several times, @Denise Evans and ended up with so many questions that I had to quit before Ilost faith completely. Reading the Bible doesn't answer everything. Perhaps prayer?
First, just to clarify, I don't have all my questions answered either, never heard anyone say they had either. Some things are a mystery to me but I can't imagine I'm supposed to understand it all, good thing. Keeps me learning as long as I remain teachable. I do try to pray Don, but to be honest, I just don't believe in God sometimes, but starting to pray before I read the bible seems to help me. I sure seem to believe when I am crying out for help, and I'm not crying out for mommy like when I was a child.
Interesting you should say that, Don. Many people who were once believers became agnostic or atheist BECAUSE they read the Bible.
Having a few good conversations with the Father helps. Sometimes when I search for answers and can’t find them, I think that maybe I just haven’t grown enough to be able to use that knowledge correctly. . I mean, there are the times when I know that I read and even memorized a verse and reviewed it a number of times then suddenly, I get an entirely different view of the verse than I had before. Maybe the type of frustration you feel is why many churches of today are giving its congregants some instant gratification in the form of some jive that is only vaguely compared to worship. e.g. bigger bands, brighter lights, I’m okey, you’re okay.etc…..
Even Paul wrote that there are many mysteries that defy answers even though he claimed, in the end, to finally have those answers.