No End To Greed

Discussion in 'Money & Finances' started by Richard Whiting, Jul 5, 2023.

  1. Hoot Crawford

    Hoot Crawford Veteran Member
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    At the risk of confusing some folks with facts, in 2020, the top 1% received 22.2% of total AGI, and paid 42.3% of the total federal income tax. The bottom 50% of earners paid zero taxes or received "refunds" that made their tax rate negative. So the remaining ~ 58% of taxes are paid by the folks in the 51% to 99% range.

    As for raising tax rates, that may or may not increase tax revenues. Google "Laffer Curve" for details.

    And all employees do get a share of company profits. It's called a paycheck.

    So I certainly agree that there is no end to greed, we just disagree on who is being greedy.

    p.s. When my first wife passed away, over 20 years ago, I donated most of her clothes to a local charity that helped women dress professionally for job interviews, etc. I quit counting her shoes when I got to 100 pair.
     
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  2. Nancy Hart

    Nancy Hart Supreme Member
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    Everyone knows that the middle class pays the bulk of income taxes in terms of dollars. This has always been true, simply because there are so many more people in the so-called middle class.

    The "middle class" is defined as those earning between two-thirds and twice the median American household income, which in 2021 was $70,784, according to the Census Bureau. That means households earning as little as $47,189 and up to $141,568 are technically in the middle class.

    So are you saying the middle class and workers are the greedy ones? Or those that receive tax credits at the lower end of the income scale?
     
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  3. Hoot Crawford

    Hoot Crawford Veteran Member
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  4. Richard Whiting

    Richard Whiting Very Well-Known Member
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    According to a 2021 White House study the top 400 U.S.billionaires paid just 8.2 % of their annual income in federal taxes, compared to the average Americans who paid 13% of their annual income in federal taxes. If left up to me, I'd reverse those rates. I'd tax the richest Americans at a rate of 13% and set the rate at 8.2 % for the avg American.

    Moreover, 55 of the largest U.S. corporations paid NO FEDERAL TAXES, on their 2020 profits, which costs the U.S. federal gov't 180 billion in lost revenue each year. Instead they actually received tax rebates collectively draining an additional 12 billion from the U.S. gov't.

    We have a very serious fairness problem in the U.S. There shouldn't be ANY U.S. corporation that pays no federal taxes.
     
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  5. Hoot Crawford

    Hoot Crawford Veteran Member
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    I'm curious. How much did you pay in Federal Income tax last year? Was it less than 8.2%?
     
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  6. Nancy Hart

    Nancy Hart Supreme Member
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    There have been attempts to change this.

    The Alternative Minimum Tax for individuals has been around since 1969 I believe. It helps to ensure that high income taxpayers pay at least a minimum amount of tax.

    Since 1986 there has also been a Corporate Alternative Minimum Tax (CAMT). Recently it has applied to corporations with average annual income over $1 billion for a period of three consecutive years.

    The 2017 tax cut law repealed the federal CAMT altogether.

    Beginning in 2023 the US will reinstate CAMT at a 15% rate.

    One problem is that the CAMT also allows a carry forward offset. Specifically, if a corporation paid more than the minimum tax in one year, it could carry that extra amount over to apply to the CAMT in later years, when it would not have paid the minimum.

    (I don't know how the IRS keeps up with all these whiplash changes.)
     
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  7. Richard Whiting

    Richard Whiting Very Well-Known Member
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    A s a retiree I pay no taxes since I have no outside income.
     
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  8. Beth Gallagher

    Beth Gallagher Supreme Member
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    So it's easy for you to sit back and say what the rest of us should pay. :rolleyes:
     
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  9. Hoot Crawford

    Hoot Crawford Veteran Member
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    Picking out 400 families or 55 corporations that you feel didn't pay what they owe is "cherry picking the data", and doesn't change the fact that the top 1% pay over 40% of the Fed Income tax, and the top 10% pays about 3/4 of the taxes. Which leaves about 1/4 for the middle class and nothing for the botttom.

    And most of us are not in a position to analysis those tax returns and make any judgment about them. For example, those 55 evil corporations could have had substantial loses in 2020 and 2021 Covid years, which can be used to offset 2022 profits. It's legal.

    To me, greed is paying nothing (or very little) and expecting those who do already pay in a lot to pay in even more, Here's an example. My late wife's nephew injured his arm in a motorcycle accident 40 years ago, got on disability (it's West Virginia, where disability is considered a career path,,,) and has not worked one single day since then. If fact he will tell you he only sells drugs on the side because his disability check it too small. OTOH, by son and wife are more or less 1%ers (can't say for sure, since it really isn't any of my business), and yes they have a very nice house and 3 nice German cars (I really like the blue Porsche), etc. But they have both been working for 40 years, both still work, my son 6 or 7 days a week, and they have earned every single penny they have. Greed is the nephew demanding my son give him more money.

    And Richard, since you live in Mexico and pay zero taxes, you don't really have a dog in this fight.
     
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  10. Richard Whiting

    Richard Whiting Very Well-Known Member
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    Yes, quite easy. Actually, you should be on my side of the issue since it is very likely you would pay LESS .
    The only folks I have an issue with are those who are living like kings/queens while so many are homeless and hungry.
     
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  11. Richard Whiting

    Richard Whiting Very Well-Known Member
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    Where I live has nothing what-so-ever to do with whether I pay taxes or not. I'd not be paying taxes even if I still lived in the states.

    In any event, being retired does not exempt one from thinking about what could help the poorest Americans. Seriously, what could possibly be wrong with vastly expanding programs like Habitat for Humanity OR reducing taxes for a single mom who is trying to raise 3 children by herself ?

    I'm for anything that would help the poorest Americans . Listen, we all are aware of the ever increasing inflation and that wages are not keeping up .
    No parent should have to feed their children less than a solid healthy diet.
     
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  12. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    When I owned an ambulance company, we had a couple of million dollars in revenue floating through, although most of it went back out again. We had employees taking home a bigger paycheck than our own and, on some weeks, they were paid but we weren't.
     
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  13. Tony Nathanson

    Tony Nathanson Very Well-Known Member
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    We were not all meant to be equal. We were not all born with the same talents, abilities, goals or priorities.
    I think people who are critical of those who are wealthy or successful have some issues with envy & jealousy.
     
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  14. Tony Nathanson

    Tony Nathanson Very Well-Known Member
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    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Nancy Hart

    Nancy Hart Supreme Member
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    ... So much for the possibility of carrying on serious debates here. Why not stick to the subject matter, rather than question the motives or character of everyone who disagrees?
     
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