James, You forget one small detail.....Even with Battista the people of Cuba was free.....and in Venezuela, before Chávez, also the people was free. No, they were not starving...both nations were prosperous. Ask the Cubans and the Venezuelans...ask whoever lived under Socialism / Communism and / or had the smallest friction with this "ideology". Sure, many Americans and most Europeans believe Socialism is a passage to paradise...until they see the nationals of these two countries searching for food in garbage cans...or kilometers of young girls (jineteras) selling their bodies for food. Nobody, ever, jeopardizes his / her life to leave the "paradise".
"Most Europeans"? Not true, Silvia. The idea of erecting a socialist state is as dead as a doornail. In which European country do you detect a leftist movement or party worth mentioning? The problem in many European countries is the New Right, right-wing populist and national-conservative movements wanting to establish authoritarian regimes that would do away with checks and balances and curb civil liberties and individual freedom and which have already been successful in Orban's Hungary and Kaczyński's Poland. Also look at Salvini's Lega Nord, the FPÖ in Austria, Le Pen's Front National, the AfD in Germany.
Thomas Did I say "most European countries are going into Socialism"? No, I did not. I said that MOST EUROPEANS (people) think Socialism is a passage to paradise." I don't know how many Europeans you spoke too. No idea....but all those who associated Cuba with paradise changed their minds AFTER visiting this country. I know a French couple who lived 10 years in Cuba and upon their return to France they wrote / published a book on the life in Cuba. This book sold out in no time and, finally, many Europeans learned the truth about the Cubans and their suffering. Again, I never said Europe was going left.
I understood what you wrote. It starts with people and "most Europeans" do not think positively about Socialism. That's why there are no parties worth mentioning whose programs include Socialism as a goal. Being a European myself and having lived in Europe for 66 years I may have spoken to more Europeans than you if that's anything to go by. However, I, for one, would not base any opinion I have about political movements on the number of people talked to. Would you?
Thomas, wrong again. Here I quote myself """ many Americans and most Europeans believe Socialism is a passage to paradise."""" They are convinced of this UNTIL they see first hand the truth about Socialism. Yes, you speak to more Europeans than I do / did...but I spoke to few more than five. People who have lived in Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua,.....people sent to these countries by their governments and for business. You don't know my family. These people always mentioned how surprised they were upon seeing how horrible life is in some Latin American countries....Ciao.
Venezuela, Nicaragua? We've saved Nicaragua from "Socialism" a number of times during the last century to "protect them from socialism," and have been trying to topple Venezuela's govt these past two decades. It's interesting that we get angry (as we should) when other countries meddle in our government, but assume it's our duty to meddle in theirs?
Why did the Venezuelans elect a government (two decades ago) to use some petro revenue for the benefit of the people, rather than the corrupt wealthy and international corporations?
Study the Khmer Rouge movement in Cambodia. How it all started forming in the 60s and came to be in the '70s. It helps explain how socialism and communism can be different by ideology but one and the same in reality. A good friend is married to a survivor of the Khmer Rouge era and she will tell you how socialism sets the stage for communism and is in her eyes the same. The first rule of communism is social restructuring. Yes, socialism is already here and communism is waiting in the shadows. Communist China is excited about the turn of events in the USA and that alone tells me what is coming.
James , The corrupt was the government "elected"....which impoverished the Venezuelans to eating food from garbage cans. Talk to the Venezuelans who are now spread allover South America and to the many others who already reached USA.
James I wish we would have saved those countries as you say. Gee, at a time we also saved Argentina...but not for long. And yes, it's our duty to meddle in the other countries to protect us from them. See, "if I punch you first I punch you twice".
No, I'm definitely not wrong. You are. All I'm saying is that "most Europeans" do not believe that Socialism is the way to paradise. That's what you say without providing any evidence. So it's nothing more than a wild guess of yours.
Thomas You were wrong about your interpretation of my words. About most Europeans NOT believing Socialism and paradise are one and the same........well, my dear member, I must have been talking to Europeans from Jupiter or Pluton since the ones I spoke to (mostly relatives who have lived in Latin America during years in different capacities), came to this side of the pond convinced Castro, Chávez and the other populist leaders were the hero and USA was the monster...until, of course, seeing the horrors created by these SOBs. The same experience I had with the Spaniards...........and I was there.
No, I was not wrong about interpreting your words. Your words can only be understood the way you write them down. Listen, the point is not that I call your personal experience into doubt. You may have talked to those people. What I disagree with is the drama, the fact that you wildly extrapolate from your, nonetheless, rather limited experience by making sweeping statements about what you think the majority of Europeans believe. That's my point. Nothing else. OK, to make this crystal clear. You are saying that you know for sure that more than 370 million (!)Europeans "believe that socialism is the gateway to paradise"? Because that's what "most Europeans" means. After all, "most" means more than 50% of the population of 741 million, doesn't it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe Again, my point is: How do you know that? All the evidence you have in order to underpin this assertion is the number of people from Europe you - personally -- happened to talk to? Don't you realise how utterly absurd your claim is? Why don't you just say "some / a number of Europeans I talked to" and then it's alright?
Thomas The tone of your answer proves me right. Maybe I spoke with only few Europeans...but they were the ones telling me "In Europe we think glories about Castro and Chávez." Trust me, it took them only few months living in Latin America -some at the government level- to understand their mistake and to say "I (we) will tell the truth about this horrible reality." May be they didn't tell you directly but, I am sure, spread the truth among their acquaintances. Wait and their words may reach you. Please, find out why many Cubans now living there were asked by many Europeans WHY they left their country when in Cuba everything is great. Also ask the Venezuelans, the Salvadorians.... You sound like Cody and custom jewelry. The only difference is he is a lot more fun. It was a pleasure to chat with you.
No, it doesn't. Is it the old tired refrain about the tone again when you are at your wits' end? My tone is perfectly alright. Don't you worry. What about yours? Your answers proves my point, though: You don't seem to understand what I wrote. I have had more pleasant chats but admittedly not here. Uih, yes, the smiley