Beth, you and I probably disagree on all religious and political matters and that's ok; I don't expect to influence your world views. You ask though why people can't accept their own beliefs without trying to denigrate the beliefs of others? Even though you perhaps misapply the term denigrate, my post answers that question, but you find the answer unpalatable. It is unreasonable not to acknowledge that the world is full of right and wrong beliefs and actions - with genocide, slavery, rape and murder being good examples. As a Christian, I'm compelled to share, encourage, and support the truths of God, and it's inevitable that those religious beliefs and moral values will expose and oppose other people's beliefs and values, particularly those that are evil. So be it. As you suggest, your unbelief as an agnostic justifies your views. In any case, I only wish you well and peace in finding truth in these matters. Yvonne, I'm sure everyone here recognizes that not all Muslims go around killing and beheading people, so I'm not sure what your point is since I certainly didn't make such a claim. It is true though that those followers of Islam who commit deadly acts of violence are doing so because of the Quran's teachings (100+ verses). Thus, their religious beliefs, based upon the sacred scriptures of Islam, are directly affecting their evil deeds. Now while a disturbing percentage of the world's Muslim population supports these beliefs and actions, I'd maintain that most of the world's peoples would admit that such beliefs and actions are wrong - if pressed to give an opinion. Personally, I don't think hiding from such truth benefits God or society. This is in fact a strong case for recognizing good versus evil, right versus wrong, and the importance of religious beliefs influencing those factors. I'm sure too that everyone here recognizes that not all Atheists kill and imprison Christians, so I'm not sure what your point is since I certainly didn't make such a claim. It is true though that many world government leaders past and present from the Soviet Union and Southeast Asia have targeted Christians for imprisonment, torture, and murder specifically because they opposed the Atheistic beliefs and agenda. Here again is a valid example of religious beliefs affecting the actions of individuals, and I'd hope that anyone who understands and respects individual freedoms could recognize the right and wrong here. You say that to make a blanket statement about everyone of any faith is not right, but I'm not sure what your point is since I certainly didn't make such a claim. I think it's important when assessing truth about religion that we separate the flawed beliefs and actions of individuals from the religious doctrines themselves. In the case of Catholicism, which was the original topic of this post, I know with certainty that many professing Catholics aren't even aware of the church's controversial traditions, yet alone believe them themselves. As a Christian, I want to learn the truth about the large number of spiritual beliefs existing today, not only to affirm my own faith, but to better testify to others. Sorting through the major world religions, various Christian cults, and other spiritual factions ultimately leads to a reality of conflicting beliefs. It's impossible for all of them to be right. Many people take the easy path and dismiss them all; others just accept the faith they were raised with. I'll maintain that seeking the truth, the right faith, is what's needed, and that inevitably leads to recognizing right from wrong beliefs and actions. Your question of "How can someone claim to be a follower of a Loving God, and then hate everyone who believes differently than they do?" is an irrelevant point, since I certainly don't feel that way and haven't exposed any such hate towards individuals. I am familiar though with liberals who'd call me hateful because I believe in marriage between a man and a women and a racist because I believe in enforcing national borders. I suppose it would also be consistent in their views to call me hateful because I oppose certain false religions. I cannot argue against such irrationality, but for those with more common sense and honesty, I'd reiterate that determining right and wrong in this world is a life long path of assessing belief systems and moral values. As a Christian, I seek this truth, share it, and don't equate it with judging or hating individuals who haven't found the right path yet. Your final defense of Islam is a popular response in today's religious tolerance culture. It supposes though that I have accosted all Muslims, which I certainly haven't. In fact, I've spent much time in Muslim towns worldwide and have known the people to be the nicest of all races met. That's an irrelevant point though on whether the Quran and its underlying scriptures attributes to the wrong acts of certain followers. As a Christian, I will appropriately reject and oppose the false religion of Islam and it's foundation of violence. At the same time, I will know and love Muslim people as much as you, and hope to influence as many of them as possible towards the one true, right religion in the world. Lois, I never judged your true position on the importance of immortal souls on this earth, so please don't claim an accusation from me that wasn't made. I listed premises that would consistently follow from the conclusion that religious beliefs don't matter and that we should respect all of them. Upon reading those, you're the only one who can determine their truth or not, but the point was to question the prevailing consensus that there is no right or wrong religious beliefs or practices. Bobby, my response was prompted because of the apparent consensus being reached by Lon, Bess, and Lois that we should respect other peoples' faith and methods of exercising that faith between man and God. I understand that this is consistent with our popular culture today of religious tolerance, but I do not find it compatible with Christianity at all, and for anyone else reading this thread I feel compelled to add a different perspective. I didn't and don't accuse any of the writers of actually agreeing with my disturbing premise conclusions; in fact, I had hoped for my reasoning to prompt some revision to their conclusions. Unfortunately, emotions have overtaken logic and now I've been misinterpreted and attacked - for making a point that should be obviously clear to any rational person. Perhaps there's room for discussion on what "respect" entails, but my discourse was meant to point out that religion is important for determining truth and moral values, that individuals' actions often derive from these religious values, and that we shouldn't support, respect, or accept wrong/bad ones over right/good ones. I would expect both believers and non-believers to recognize and understand this basic precept. Sadly, like the others, you have misinterpreted me and jumped to incorrect conclusions on both my thoughts and statements. You have taken my point above and inappropriately turned it into an attack upon individuals, accusing me of being unloving and intolerant. Ironically, tolerant in diverse beliefs and values is exactly what I do hold, as evidenced by the way I treat individuals daily whom I personally meet with opposing views - including many of my friends. What I don't hold is denying right from wrong in order to avoid confrontation with others who would disagree. And as a Christian, I recognize that there are a lot of misguided people in the world, including other Christians, who don't recognize right from wrong on many key issues. To share truth with them is no more unloving than the mother who keeps her children from sticking their hand in the fire or playing out in the street. I will continue to seek and speak truth in accordance with God's will, but pray that others won't misunderstand me as has been grossly done here.
The problem with communicating via the written word is it can have some serious consequences especially when it reads like a rant and highly accusatory rather than one of education based on love. I have no problem with the premise of what you wrote but merely how you wrote it. There was no anger nor any other kind of negative emotion involved in what I wrote back for indeed, if anything else I was asking you to show the love of our Lord rather than the break rocks attitude of Peter. It’s a given that I do avoid those teachers and preachers who would rather tickle the ears than state the truth but I also avoid those who pound others with the Bible than explain the simplicity of God’s Word. Was it not the Master who told the Pharisees that they made God’s Word so difficult that none would see the Kingdom of Heaven? I too have an education and can tout two post grad degrees one of which is an MDiv and I too have been to 17 countries and all 50 states and I also have friends who are of different faiths. All that said, through all the rituals produced by mankind and all the candle lighting and genuflecting that people do or who they worship or how they worship there has been no other sentence than one that has brought more people to the Lord God than: May I tell you about Jesus Christ? Education is a wonderful thing to have for it is written that we should study to show ourselves approved unto God, a Workman who needeth not be ashamed rightly dividing the Word of Truth but in the end......It is through Jesus the Christ by whom we are saved. Simple and exact.
I have always been fascinated by the various forms of religious ritual. I had to enquire when I was a youth the first time I saw someone genuflect or make the sign of the cross. I thought all this ritual was pretty neat when I went to a Mass with a friend. The Rosary Bead ritual intrigued me as well. None of this ever stuck however. I am sure there must be other religions that have interesting physical rituals besides Catholics, I am just not aware of them.
When I was a paramedic, I had a partner who would genuflect whenever he went past a Catholic Church. There are a lot of Catholic churches in the Rio Grande Valley of Texas, and he would do this even if we were responding to an emergency, with lights and sirens.
@Ken Anderson, he was probably just making a sign of the cross (asking a blessing) not genuflecting (a deep kneel on one knee). I don't think it would be possible to genuflect while driving. Genuflecting is a sign of deep reverence and generally only done toward the Tabernacle of the church, although even many Catholics are confused about this.
Here is the entry RELIGION from my still-being-written Glossary of Biblical Terms. RELIGION is the opium of the people. So said Karl Marx and I agree. Why? In Koine Greek, religion is deisidaimonia. Deisi (dread) daimonia (demon or pagan deity). Religion is the teaching of dreaded demons which are dreaded pagan deities. (Acts 17:22, 25:19)Threskeia (Acts 26:5, Colossians 2:18, James 1:26,27) is also often translated religion but is better translated as ritual, and the related word, threskon, as ritualist. (James 1:26) Ritual is a major component of the superstitious system of dread that is religion. Ritualism and pagan deities abound in the pagan Cult of Rome. Early on in the history of the Roman Cult (in order to make their dreaded doctrines of demons and wretched rituals more familiar and appealing to the pagans of the Roman Empire) transformed the Empire's many pagan deities into 'saints' and the Babylonian 'Queen of Heaven' into the Virgin Mary. (The reader should obtain and read The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop available online as a free PDF to learn more.) Being born again and filled with the Holy Spirit usually dispels the human propensity for religion and ritual but some folks are incorrigibly religious. Religion, in my own reading and experience, is humankind seeking God through morality, prayer, ritual, meditation, chanting, art and whatnot, as opposed to God Himself reaching out to us and saving us in the Person and Work of the Lord Jesus Christ. Religion cannot help you 'find God' because you area sinner (as are we all) and hence you are cut off from God. If you weren't cut off from God you would not have to seek God. Friend, you need the Lord Jesus Christ not religion. Repent of (change your mind about) your sins and believe the Gospel (Good News) and then be immersed in water (baptized) in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ. (Acts 2:38) (See BABYLON, GOSPEL, IMMERSE, JESUS, MAMMON, REPENTANCE)
It is refreshing and good to know that none of that "stuck". It could have been a seriously fatal downward spiral for you if it had.
Rituals mentioned in the Bible for Christians would be Baptism, praying and worshipping God, sharing in the ritual of the Last Supper, and keeping the Sabbath holy. There probably are more but these are the ones Jesus set examples for that are a part of my life as a Christian. I want to make one thing clear, to me personally these things are not religious rituals...but are spiritual ways of deepening my personal relationship with my Father God and my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
Prayer beads have had an allure for me. A girl who lived across the street when I was a kid taught me how to use a rosary. In my 20s a boss who had visited Egypt brought unpolished and very fragrant sandalwood misbaha back for the office staff, which I used more as worry beads, not knowing any Islamic prayers. Later I noticed a bunch of people in my life who routinely meditated wearing mala beads on their wrists. I've made Pagan prayer beads myself, and have been give a small bracelet sized set from a Druid. It's fascinating to me how this concept is nearly universal in the spiritual practices around the world. Home and outdoor altars have also intrigued me -- a practice that is thousands of years old, as evidenced in many archeological digs. A friend made a bench sized altar for me, and I've also from time to time had small altars on varies side tables and foyer tables. Had one on a book shelf in my office on campus for a while. These altars generally include a burning bowl, smudge stick, something to represent the four elements, and other accoutrement of spiritual practice. Of course altars usually include candles. I don't know any Pagans who don't have a wide variety of candles at home, in their yard, and where permitted, in their office. On an altar of course they represent the element of Fire. But large 7 day Shiva candles are also often on an altar when holding a multi-day ritual for things like prayers for recovery after accident or surgery or all too frequent mass shootings. I sometimes use a small menorah with slightly taller than birthday cake sized candles in it when doing other multi-day prayer rituals. A spiritual teacher once asked me to create 144 prayer ties for a special ritual. These are small squares of cloth, often flannel, in which is contained tobacco, considered a sacred plant by Native North Americans, and chips of various crystals and other tiny gemstones. These little packets are strung together then used to encircle a sacred ritual space. Afterwards the ties can be left in forests, or deconstructed and the contents given as offerings to the EarthMother.
When I was a kid, we visited relatives who are Catholic, and they had a holy water station in the hallway of their home. I observed my cousins dipping their fingers into the little cup, then making the sign of the cross and was mystified. (My family was southern Baptist.) I decided to check out the water holder and noticed the sponge bottom was getting quite dry, so I went to the kitchen and got a cup of water to fill it up. Later I was advised that the water was supposed to be blessed holy water. Oops. I was just trying to be helpful. I hope none of them went to hell for using that plain ole' tap water.
As a Baptist, I do observe two ordinances (some churches call them sacraments), but we do not call them rituals. And those are baptism and communion (Lord's Supper). My wife and I are different, somewhat, in our beliefs. Her church (Lutheran) does communion very differently than ours (I attend her church very often) in that the congregants go forward row by row to the front of the sanctuary, kneel at the alter, take bread from the pastor, or designated church leader, either dip the bread in wine, or drink the wine after the taking of bread (the former for me). Lutherans believe in consubstantiation, which means that the body and blood of Christ are present along with the bread and wine. Of course, in my church, we do not use real wine, but grape juice and a very small "biscuit", which requires minor chewing and swallowing. Before the two events happen, the pastor reads some appropriate scriptures, observing the words of Jesus when he met with the disciples before his trial. Our communion takes only about 5 minutes, since the communion elements are passed out to the congregants by the deacons, and only takes place a few times per year. The Lutherans, however, have communion at every service and takes up about 15 minutes of the time. Many churches have many other variations of these, and I have visited some where I had to ask when passed the bread and wine (if I sat on the first row) what to do. At one church a very young lad offered the bread and wine and stood there waiting -- I didn't know what to do -- he finally motioned to me and I understood that I was supposed to drink the "wine" immediately before he moved to the next row. (somewhat embarrassing)