The Bible By The King James

I am a ULC Minister, since 2004, and a seeker of truth. I came across this article and read it through because I already knew something had happened to this version that many use and think that is the real Bible and the whole truth. Well it isn't and here is all about that. Please read it and take all that is states into your mind.

Witchcraft on the High Seas: King James and the North Berwick Witch Trials

 

Ah yes, it is a wonderful thing to be in the presence of a fellow minister. I too, as many here know am also a minister but unfortunately it took two masters degrees (M-Div, M-TS) and an honorary doctorate before I was ordained into ministerial service. Where did you study?

Okay, to the topic at hand. Witchcraft and the KJV. The Bible (1611 KJV and followers) have been used for centuries by "some" in order to forward personal interests even in the days of the witch hunts. Certainly, Wesley, Luther, and other near modern day apologists would agree for they were persecuted because they believed the Bible as a whole rather than one or two verses which loosely backed an agenda.

Certainly, with your ministerial prowess @Debbie Allen armed with the order of Paul to Timothy in 2 Tim. 2:15 you have indeed broken down the English version of all verses and doctrines in question in the New Testament into Koine and the Old Testament into Aramaic and performed the necessary expository in which to form a more informed opinion.

That said, I do believe you might have left your topic a bit loosely translated as to allow those who follow your post the opportunity to BELIEVE that the Word of God has anything to do with witchcraft whether translated in the KJV or any other acceptable Judeo / Christian document.

Normally, when I propose a topic especially one involving a belief system I do so much like to offer my own studies and wording rather than using someone else's studies.
Things can be so well misconstrued as truth when we rely on someone else to do our studying for us, don't you agree?

 

No, I left that way on purpose...to get people to think. I don't think that it matters one iota how manyyears that you studied and where it was and use that as some sort of Holier Than Thou. I also, and you might well do what everyone else has done to me, do not like Paul and how he infiltrated the Jews, as Jesus was a Jew and not a Christian. You may beleive in the sly way that Jesus was put out of that Bible by the Romans, who called themselves Chritian, bit I don't. Jesus and Paul were very different persons and have very different backgrounds.
Truth is truth. Witchcraft was frown upon by the New Church. They were considered Devil/Satan worshippers...and all that came from those who did not believe in the New Christianity. If you care to read that article, it does have many facts in it.

 

Great post, @Bobby Cole I didn't know if I would respond to this post or not... but I guess I will say a few things.

I do not intend to read that link, though... just from the title, I suspect it's something I do not want to use my time up reading. I am from a long line of believers and more than a few ordained minister ancestors, and I try to stay away from things that could be considered heresy. Tolerance is one thing, but *I* get to choose and decide what things I let into my head.

If I'm not mistaken, there are even places where one can get "ordained" online with no training! Well okay, I should say if I'm not mistaken about them *still* existing.. they definitely did 15 years ago because I checked it out for kicks. Became a "minister" just for saying that I wanted to, and then immediately became too embarrassed to ever tell anyone. Until now.

 

I disagree. It *does* matter because the bottom line is spiritual needs. In my mind, trusting or listening to someone who pretends to be a person of the cloth would be akin to me going to a shoemaker for medical advice or letting a lawyer operate on me. Not gonna happen.

 

My dear @Debbie Allen, did I in any way attempt to make me seem "holier than thou"? Granted, it did cost me a few thousand bucks which a good education often does whereas upon looking it only cost you a few dollars to get your ULC ministerial ordination on line. (and almost immediately upon application).
Perhaps I am a bit envious for I could have been well on my way teaching and preaching several years earlier had there been such a site nearly 45 years ago that didn't call for more theological knowledge. No, I think not for I am extremely happy to have aligned myself with the Sword and Shield of God by searching for and receiving what little knowledge I have. For indeed I may have gnosis but not epignosis.

Let's see though. Paul infiltrating the Jews. Granted, he was a pretty big name in the Sanhedrin because he persecuted the Christ believers but I do not recall him ever infiltrating the Sanhedrin even in the loosest of historical information. After his transformation it was Pauls ordination which called for ministering to the Gentiles.

I read the link dear Debbie and see absolutely nothing that can sway my "thinking". Perhaps, if you proposed some of your personal studies for us to peruse it might be of some help in developing an enlightening experience such as those that you endorse.

After re-reading your reply for the third time, I would seriously like you to propose something revealing your OWN work rather than showing the dependency upon someone with less tenure in Christian studies.

 

Just like many others you fail to go beyond the first paragraph. I don't have to prove myself to anyone and becasue you have to and stated that you will not go to that link proves that you have been told not to and are afraid of the truth. So be it.

 

@Debbie Allen , those kinds of things can be very dangerous. They taught that in seminary, right? I mean, I'm sure they did... but... well seriously, does any Christian religion truly believe things like that? I had to look up the official definition of heresy before I said any of what I said to be sure, and I felt it fit. Why would I go to the link? If I believe meth is evil, I'm not going to go buy some and use it just to be sure.

 

First of all I didn't post it to sway anyones thinking. Whose theology did you study fro or for. It really doesn't matter anyway as I do not use that as a judgement tool. I don't need to prove anything about my education or knowledge.
Lets see inflltration....Saul was sent to the Jews to bring them back to be hanged or killed or all of the above. That would be infiltrating.
We can argue this all day but there have been and are many mistranslation in that Bible.
I go by the messages that Jesus gave.

http://www.sherryshriner.com/sherry/churches.htm
"Paul, Satan’s Pawn: The Infiltrator and Deceiver
Paul, then known as Saul, acting on behalf of the rich Jewish oppressors was a Jewish Edomite Pharisee who persecuted the Christians who were renewing their knowledge of the laws and the application of the laws in their daily lives. Disrupting the status quo, the rich oppressors and legalists would have lost their foothold in making money off the poor if the laws were to change and be followed correctly.
Paul said that he had had a `vision' and called himself a
believer in Yahushua however he preached not for but against the social laws and against the social system of the Torah. He preached against material independence, against social security, against freedom from oppression and exploitation.
As Edomite Hillel had infiltrated and changed the Talmud to blindside the Jews to accept oppression, Paul infiltrated the sect of the believers and tried to undo what Yahushua and his followers had done, while using the name of Yahweh to do it. Saul had been tutored by Gamaliel, Hillel's grandson. Both had managed to master the art of deception and lead the people of their time away from the truth of the laws and into oppression.
Paul preached a political ideology to subvert the people and be able to exploit them without hindrance to the status quo. Under the true laws, exploitation was forbidden, but without the laws being applied, the rich could continue to get rich off of the exploitation of the poor. And that's what they did.
The Laws of the Torah gave the people freedom from oppression and exploitation. And every time they wandered away from the laws, they ended up oppressed and exploited, and back into slavery. Much of the same way we as Americans are today. Our government exploits and makes money off the people by unnecessary and inflated taxation, also through exploitive legislation where the rich can become richer, and the poor get poorer. These practices are outlawed in the social system laws of the Torah. Neither has the wealth of America ever been divided out and shared among its people. Our loans are loaded with interest, and there is never forgiveness from unpaid loans. There is freedom in the laws of God while there is slavery, exploitation and manipulation in the laws of man.
It was Paul's teachings against the laws of Yahweh that brought him into conflict with the Judahite believers. The entire area of Asia rejected him. In Revelation the church of Ephesus was praised for recognizing false prophets, yet Paul wrote a letter to the Ephesians as if they were his followers. He could get no where with the Judahite Jews, so he concentrated on gaining converts from gentiles (people who are not (Judahite or Israelite) and who presumably knew nothing or little about the laws of the Torah and who would thus be more likely to follow his teachings without arguing about its content or aware of his deceptions.
Paul's letters (epistles) are the oldest part of the New Testament. It seems that Paul's letters were written about 50 AD and the gospels about 70-100 AD. Paul's letters were never accepted by the early church. The Apostles never mentioned him in their writings, only he includes some of them in his. Yet today our New Testament, configured by a pagan, is dominant with Paul's teachings.
What stands out is that no one before Paul wrote such letters and
taught such things as he did, and no one did so afterwards. His letters give his own point of view and personal ideology and he gives them an authority which they would not otherwise have had by means of a self-proclaimed vision.
The gospels as a whole relate to the life and death of Yahushua but Paul's letters seem to be more a vehicle for pronouncements directed against observance of laws ensuring freedom, independence and equality.
It was the rejected Paul's teachings that were accepted and placed in dominance after 300 years of persecutions wiped out the early church. Even today the Gentile Christians' stories about the beginning of Christianity differ from those of the Judahite Christians. It is the versions of the Gentile Christians which were included in the Christian Canon and became official doctrine. The Torah, Feasts, and Commandments were replaced by the laws of laziness and lawlessness.
There is much to be revealed about Paul and you can read more about how he infiltrated and deceived early believers at http://www.justgivemethetruth.com But was there even a more hideous agenda to Paul than to subvert people away from the teachings of Yahushua and His apostles?"

 

Love One Another as yourself.
You shall reap what you sow.
Do Unto Other As You Wohave them do unto you.
Judge not least y be judged just as harshly.

You can believe whatever you want, makes no different to me. I just put it out there for those who want to learn how other people live and some truth, but alas, I get blasted by some...don't wory I have had a few think that Paul is God and not Jesus...hmmm I wonder how that switched around.....

“Like as a father pitieth his children, so the Lord pitieth them that fear Him.” ~ Psalm 103:13

 

Are we not told to " prove and test ALL things"? If anyone asks me by which authority I come before a congregation I do have to back up everything I say with proof of those things that I endorse. Otherwise, I am as a "tinkling bell" to the ears of those who will hear me out. If I have to show credibility then surely, yes Debbie, you do have to prove yourself also, not only before God but before those you might wish to lead.

 

Whew! Thank you, @Debbie Allen ... for a minute there, I thought you were judging me for not wanting to fill my head with the stuff in that link. I suppose technically saying that I'm "afraid of the truth" might be judging me, but we don't need to split hairs, do we? Carry on.

 

Please do excuse me one and all for I must go and perform a duty that might take a few hours. I do honestly consider this to be an important conversation but not for my sake but rather for the sake of those who would bow to unstudied rhetoric.
Do have a God filled day and I do promise to check in later however wanted or unwanted.
Sowing and reaping..............let's think about that hard and strong @Debbie Allen. I love you and so does God........preacherbob or just plain......Bobby Cole.

 

Oh my... oh my... oh my. Okay, let me start at the beginning. I had no idea who Sherry Shriner is... or "was" if she's dead. So being the investigative person I am, I wanted to find out if the alien thing was a joke. It wasn't.

I finally got into one website without being warned to pray heavily first because it's satanist territory... I know on an intellectual level that darkness exists in the world, but I'll also admit that when it hits me in the face, I'm just a big quivering chicken. I backed away and closed down those sites and I will not be returning. I saw enough about "Sherry Shriner" to give me nightmares for a while.

The "alien" issue I could have chuckled at and moved on... but this is so much deeper.