For a couple of years after my older brother graduated from Michigan State University with a Master's Degree, we were working at the same fiberglass boat company. He was hired before me, but I was making more money because I could operate the fiberglass chopper gun, and most people had trouble with that. There was almost a form of music involved in achieving an even chop, and most people didn't get that, so the chop would be thick in some places and thin in others. After he found work in his chosen field (social services), I was still making more money than he was, while employed by a paper bag company, and I think I enjoyed my work as much as he did. A couple of years ago, he told me that he hasn't read a book since he graduated from college.
The one thing I mourn that gets lost in today's discussion of "education" is the loss of its role in escorting a person from late adolescence into early adulthood by making them a more well-rounded person. It has almost been distilled down to vocational training, the efficacy of which is whether or not the resultant salary is sufficient to justify the cost of the education.
Social Services is rather interesting. You cannot get employed without an advanced degree (minimum Masters, preferred Doctorate), yet the pay sucks unless you go into private practice.
It seems that "higher education" now is more likely to mean "indoctrination" than real education, just as "science" has come to mean "do what you are told" more than "question and investigate". I think the reason the so-called "elite: want more people to go to college is that there will be more indoctrinated people in the general population, not more educated ones.
Passing a test does NOT give one mastery of a subject. There are so many instances and subjects I can readily point you to in which graduating students are merely ready to enter into an apprenticeship. I personally “passed” a lot of tests and acquired dual Master’s degrees in different aspects of theological studies but those degrees no more made me a “Master” of all things Biblical than there is a man in the moon. Matter of fact, one of the requirements I had to have was a bachelors degree in ANYTHING in order to attend the school I attended. The reason? It was proof that I could study and had the potential to do the work needed. It’s the same with your son. He should be proud to have belonged to the Long Grey Line and graduated from the same but all that information still didn’t prepare him to lead in combat. In essence, a second or even a first Lieutenant are preparatory ranks or rather, high ranking apprentices in preparation for the real deal. Some absolutely excel and others are found wanting and leave the military with their credentials in tact. Note: I do not know when he graduated but Military History isn’t even being taught any longer at the Point. West Point isn’t anything like it used to be even 40 or so years ago when I was asked to assist there. Still, graduating from West Point is indeed a door opener and hopefully it always will be.
I was gonna post an extract from the Gender Studies Department at Yale, but there are so many rabbit holes one could go down when discussing today's college campuses. I was also gonna say that you can tell an uneducated person from an educated one because when you ask them each to list the genders, the uneducated person stops after 'male and female.' But I won't say it.
Not to change my thread, but to add to it: Your thoughts about this: A person graduates from one of these prestigious schools, or for that matter, any college/university, with a Bachelors, Masters or even a PhD Degree, got a job in the field they studied, but quit that job after a year or so and do something complete different than what their Degree was? All the years of tests and studying, and above all of that , money spent? I'll bet this doesn't make parents very happy that pay for their kids college/university schooling. But, then if the student pays for all of their post-high school education, perhaps the money doesn't matter as much. While getting our oil changed at a Dodge Dealer, we met a young lady who worked in Sales. She told us that she acquired a Masters Degree in Criminal Justice, got a job with the Sheriff's Department in their office and, after a short time, quit. She never went to the Academy because she didn't want to be an officer, just a clerk.
Gee, I learned a lot by going to college, and then to grad school, and finally to extra classroom time to pass the CPA exam. I find it interesting that some of the folks on here apparently, based on the posts, learned nothing in college and/or grad school, and see no value to the educational experience. And passing all those tests didn't mean a thing.
I passed a test to be licensed as a building inspector. The questions were multiple-choice and constructed as a sentence, with the answer forming the end of the sentence. For most of them, the correct answer was the only one that formed a grammatically correct sentence. I did well, and I didn't know a damned thing about building construction.
I think about this all the time regarding the medical profession, but let's start with generalities. There are only a few professions that require specific education (medical, engineering, accounting, etc) Other than that, everyone can go into the business world at most any level. There are few skills that don't have some application in the myriad positions that exist Businesses train for their specific way of doing things Temperament has more to do with position-fit than book learnin' Regarding #3, people move around in companies and in their careers lots. That diploma is often nothing more than your ticket to get an interview. You get your foot in the door, you learn a job and you learn an industry and you meet people and opportunities are presented or you chase them. I have dealt with tons of business owners and vendor sales guys and job applicants and coworkers, and have always loved asking them "Tell me how you got to where you are today." It is never a straight line, it was rarely planned, and it is always fascinating. God bless a robust, diverse economy and those who are motivated enough to actually pursue dreams and enjoy themselves. This also goes back to an earlier comment I made that college (with some exception) is not vocational training. Doctors are the ones that interest me. They not only incur tons more education debt than most folks, but they are still in school incurring that debt when their peers are out earning an income...so it's a double cash hit. What happens when they actually start doing the work and discover that they hate it? Generally, they are screwed. They may go sell medical devices or pharmaceuticals or something else, but they gotta make enough cash to pay off all that debt. Such a situation would make me feel trapped. As much as I complain about them, I have a degree of empathy, and believe they should be given a broader berth when it comes to remedial action.
It's not that we didn't learn anything, and no one said that education has zero value. It's that the diploma does not universally really say anything about every possessor. I would never claim that graduates learned nothing from life and all their knowledge came from being on campus. There are lots of ways of learning things in life. The non-degreed can still be educated. Regarding the uneducated being the ones who disparage education...the converse is that those who completed school (making the distinction from being "educated") are the ones who are vigorously defending that status in some part to defend their attained position. No one who has that differentiator is gonna say that its value is overstated, even if they believe it to be true. Your move
We have apparently been reading different threads. This thread is largely an attack on education and the educated, and that degrees are worthless. What thread are your reading?
Same thread. My thread says that degrees are not some universal indicator of superior skills or intellect, not that they are worthless.
Not one person thus far has written that having a degree is worthless. Seems to me that you’ve jumped to a lot of conclusions and somehow feel offended.