Chinese students are intelligent, but that doesn't mean they're not indoctrinated, or even that indoctrination isn't the primary goal. Intelligence has to do with brain cells, but active brain cells don't protect someone from indoctrination. The ability to think for oneself has been discouraged for a long time. For that matter, robots are intelligent but that doesn't mean they're not programmed.
lol - ask any adult the same questions and you would have similar responses. A teenager, like me, would just google "what is the capital of Oregon" P.S - It's Salem, but I would have guessed Portland
Sorry, I guess I was confused about your "dozens of examples" - examples of what?? and the "most pitiful" - in regard to what? Sounds to me like you are supporting the OP's contention, which is in effect an argument. Have a nice day.
Ya know Hoot, I do understand perfectly that you love to argue for indeed, you’d probably try to start an argument with a fence post. Alas, it is as I wrote, I haven’t posted on this thread in a while but the facts reported concerning our national scholastic averages demonstrate that indeed, our educational system is broken. Whilst it may very well be that the system isn’t necessarily making kids more “stupid”, it certainly isn’t adequately teaching what kids need to know in order to survive and even compete with others particularly in logic, maths and sciences. Now, if one cannot comprehend what the statistics and scores mean or are doubtful as to whether they mean anything at all, yes Hoot, all one need do is to throw in a few choice words on a YouTube search and bingo, you’ll have all the examples of an under educated lot who are in need of some serious help. Question: To be sure, why do you think it appropriate to write, Have a nice day, when it is evening and you really don’t mean it anyway? Superfluous and un-meaningful gestures are tiring.
lol - having denied you are making an argument, this sure sounds like one. And if a youtube video is your proof of your position, well, that's just sad. That video was most likely 100% staged to get gullible folks to comment/repost, and has nothing to say about today's youth. So what was your example about then? Certainly, I am not the only one who doubts the validity of test scores as a measure of today's youth. Just read the thread, and pay particular attention to the posts by Ed Marsh, for example. We should do a poll on here to ask everyone if their kids/grandkids/greats are stupid/ignorant/dumb. And if this group all says no, where are those dumb ones? So, I will ignore your petty personal attacks, as i consider the source. And yes, have a nice day.
While more people are earning degrees today, there is no evidence that they are learning more, despite the fact that spending has gone up and up. When it comes to actual education, we're not doing so well. In 2019, 41.06% of 4th graders were proficient in math. By 2020, this number had dropped to 36.27%. In 2019, 33.85% of 8th graders were proficient in math. This had dropped to 26.46% by 2022. In 2019, 35.34% of 4th graders and 33.58% of 8th graders were proficient in reading. By 2022, this had dropped to 33.25% and 30.8% respectively. Meanwhile, since 1970, U.S. spending on public education has risen to what is nearly a 90-degree angle, except for a slight drop between 2010 and 2012. In 2020, governments in the United States spent $1.3 trillion on education, which comes to $4,010 per person (not per student, but per person). Teacher's salaries have risen from an average of $64.40K in 1970 to $66.40K in 2020, which is far more than the average salary of Americans, most of whom work more 12 months a year. While expenses go up greatly, the results go down. That doesn't sound like success to me.
Ken - I think you have a typo in your 1970 teacher pay number And the average salary for a worker with a 4 year degree is $74,464 (2023 data) https://wordsrated.com/teacher-salary-statistics/
Possible, but I doubt it. Whether they have a degree or not, they're paying for a public school system that has failed us, and a large reason for that is that our public school system is more interested in indoctrinating kids than in teaching them. They can't do math, and they can't read, but they do know their pronouns.
okay - well, my mother was a teacher in 1970, and her pay was about 6k, not 64k Also, this "In 1919, 41.06% of 4th graders were proficient in math."
Good evening to all- Not that it means anything at all since there's not much research to show that more money equals better teaching, but I'd like to take issue with some of the teacher pay statistics being kicked around here. I started teaching in 1974 with a salary of of $7,280- that's with a Master's Degree. I worked for almost 40 years and I never got paid more than $45,000- that's with two Master's Degrees. Please be aware that when "teacher salary statistics" are being bandied about, that many times administrator salaries, which ARE much higher than classroom salaries are put in, and this often inflates the appearance of what classroom teacher are paid. But it's not the low level of teacher pay that causes so much confusion and to be honest, purposely inaccurate statements. Those who state that the public schools "indoctrinate" the students or otherwise misteach and mislead the students are coming from a position of ignorance and perhaps intentional harm toward a very important ,and for many kids, the only chance of a better life they have- a public school education. And I would like to add, that those who low-rate the public schools surely have not come up with a better option- because there is none. you all be safe and keep well- Ed
Thank you. Yes, that was a typo. The average teacher salaries were not misquoted, however. Teachers are vastly overpaid. If I spent twenty years on one job and my results were worse every year, it's unlikely that I would be consistently rewarded. In saying this, of course, I realize that the failure of the U.S. public school system is not solely on the backs of the teachers, many of whom have quit in frustration, after not being allowed to actually teach the children who are nevertheless referred to as their students. The failure of the U.S. education is planned by people above the pay grades of the teachers.
You’re going to believe whatever it is you believe no matter what I or anyone else has to present to you so what is the point in conversing with you any longer? To be sure, after my last reply to you, I went to another thread about cats so that should show you how much concern I have over the whole “school” thing anymore. Now, to the charge of personal attacks. Since I really don’t care what you believe, why would I “attack” you personally? A reasonable person would simply read what’s there and not mentally embellish upon it in order to be offended. Is that not what the kids are being taught to do today? If you’re offended by everyone who disagrees with your own personal narrative of things then you must be right by pure merit that you’re offended. Look at the woke liberal movement that lays claims to the fluidity of gender for instance. Or, the vast number of made-up pronouns that inundate our young society to the point of them being offended by saying “sir” or “mam’, girl or boy to wit, many public schools and colleges are backing up their claims. As far as Ed goes, sorry dude but all he generally does is peek in once in a while to see how much dust he can kick up so I rarely if ever pay any attention to what he has to write any longer and as a matter of fact, of the 9 years I have spent on this forum, he’s the only one on my ignore list.
This is from your post: "Teacher's salaries have risen from an average of $64.40K in 1970" This is what Ed Marsh shared "I started teaching in 1974 with a salary of of $7,280- that's with a Master's Degree" And here's another source that shows the average for all teachers 69/70 was $8,626: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d07/tables/dt07_075.asp Is your number perhaps adjusted to 2023 dollars?
lol - "back home" your post would be called "waving the white flag". I'm not offended by anything you say, because you never say anything of any substance. To wit, this thread is not about pronouns. And of course, in a thread about education, why would you want to listen to a fella that taught for 40 years. Have a nice day! Or maybe two!