I know there are many that tout the notion of separation of church and state, not understanding the misinterpreted Jefferson source or founding fathers' actual writings on the matter. The irreligious cling to it though, trying in vain to shelter their worldly environment from any sign of the God that created them and blessed America as an exceptional nation of freedom and prosperity. The attached article concisely summarizes America's motto and how it's still being displayed publicly despite the current anti-Christian government, media, and cultural environment. I don't expect everyone to like it as I do, but only to recognize reality - that America has a strong Christian heritage. Clearly there's people on both sides of the fence trying to preserve it versus destroy it, but too many people ignorantly deny that it even exists. This short, excellent article serves as a reality check for those that need it and an enjoyable update for those of us that want God's blessing on America. https://www2.cbn.com/news/us/god-we...srooms-heres-how-it-became-our-official-motto
Before this country was even born, God fearing, Jesus Christ believing settlers from all over the world sought this land out so they could worship freely and without persecution. Yes, this country does have a wonderful Christian heritage but it is indeed a shame that even as I write this, there are those who are trying to destroy even our secular history and with that, denying the very God that blessed this land so much in the past. But, there’s another thing about our Christian heritage I might mention. Like so many things that fade through time, the empathy we might have had for how hard it must have been for our forefathers somehow diminishes and we allow the smallest inconvenience in our present Christian journey to somehow become a paramount fixture in our minds instead of the image of Jesus Christ as He suffered, died and yet came forth from a tomb on the third day. I’d like to present a very short video that almost brought me to tears out of embarrassment. Embarrassment because there are times when i too have found myself to be soft and comfortable whilst forgetting the rigors that those before us and now in other countries had and have to face each day to worship our Lord. Perhaps these wonderful people will be the forefathers of Christianity in their country. Perhaps a hundred, two hundred or more years from now, that country too will have a Christian heritage to remember and not forget like many in our country has.
I was just watching a documentary about JFK, and I think his interpretation of the meaning of Separation of Church and State. He said, and I'm paraphrasing, that churches cannot influence an election by endorsing one politician over another. They cannot influence government in the making of laws and polices. No church/temple/mosque receives federal funding, and the government cannot tell churches/temples/mosques what to preach. If I am wrong in my interpretation, please correct me.
As you likely know, Separation of Church and State is a twisted lie based upon the Establishment Clause of the Constitution. The issue with churches getting involved in politics is that it's purportedly a violation of their non-profit/non-taxable 501(c)(3) IRS status. Like everything Federal, enforcement is a one-way partisan street.
Yes, I'd say that JFK got that wrong. John's right about the reason for churches supposedly being restricted from endorsing political candidiates or parties, and I suspect most churches oblige in the same way that many Christians think it's biblically wrong to get involved too. Personally, I disagree strongly. Our entire nation's government and social culture run on beliefs and values that are based upon a world view, and that world view is influenced primarily by religious beliefs and values. A church needn't come out and openly declare support or opposition to one candidate or party, but I think its pastor should teach the flock what's going on in the world, who's in line with the Bible, and what a Christian's priorities should be. Let me give a few examples from my Christian conservative point of view. I'm reading and watching media suggesting that one should vote for Trump because he's strongly supporting Bitcoin. Now, I love Bitcoin, but I can't defend that as a critical Christian issue for determining a Republican versus Democrat vote. I love guns too, but I don't think the Bible would be my strongest foundation for voting Republican candidates in who align with that issue. On the other hand, there is one party that's clearly led the way in exchanging America's Christian heritage for a secular one. For those that don't know, it's been liberal (mostly Democrat) Supreme Court Justices that have effectively removed God from the public arena (via 16 rulings over the past 80 years). It's been liberal (mostly Democrat) politicians that have rejected Biblical moral standards and changed our entire culture into a Godless free for all society - think abortion, gay marriage, transgender equality, gender denial, complete disregard for law and order. Now these are major issues that Christians should definitely care about - more so than crypto, guns, global warming, or even the economy. But so many church goers don't have their priorities right. They desperately NEED pastoral guidance. As a church pastor, I wouldn't suggest saying names or parties, but I think it's factual and fair to say that one side consistently opposes God and Biblical moral values while the other side more often defends them. In that sense, I think church can and should influence the people and how they vote.
Thank you for this @Joseph Carl I was looking through the "board" for other to get to know other christians here, and found this. I'd never known the history for this so thanks to you, CBN, and God, I learned about it this a.m. I was up so early again, and so enjoyed the read, God bless your day richly Joseph, a sister in Christ, denise
Yesterday I went to a Young at Heart group for the 2nd time, and was glad to hear it come up in the teaching. He didn't dwell long on the subject (state of our Nation right now) and I don't think I would stay at a church that did not pray openly for our country, and where christians need to fulfill the responsibility of voting. He also suggested even with our mail-in votes, not to send them through our USPS because for now, the are sending our mail all the way to Portland OR, and then back to where our votes are counted. He suggested we put them in a drop-box, and mines going into the one at our Republican headquarters right here in town. I'm not sure if that actually saves mail-time, or just passing the mail one place to another, and another, but I'll do like he suggested. I think he used the phrase "less handling of the mail", which sounds better to me. None of our pastors shy from letting us know where they stand, and it is definitely with God and the bible. I've felt I have a duty to my country, especially after all the people that have sacrificed so much, even their lives, to keep my freedoms, especially, the freedom to worship God.
Hi Ann, just wanted to say that your "signature" is a verse I am praying regularly, putting on the Armor of God, as I've realized for years that I (and my fellow christians) are truly in a spiritual battle. The bible has never meant more to me than today, I am overjoyed to say, I read God's Word every day now, sometimes way early in the morning when I used to be so frustrated with anxiety, etc., but now, am being so comforted by the Word. God bless your day, a sister in Christ, denise PS I haven't understood about Separation of church and State, but I'm learning more from this thread, I'm so grateful to have another place online I can talk to other christians, share, and most of all, learn.
Wow, that is awesome Bobby!! What a good listen that was for me this a.m. How true. I don't know if anyone else had trouble listening, but when I clicked the link, the "playback" speed was too fast. I slowed it to .05 and was able to get every word. If anyone wants, or needs to slow the playback speed of a youtube video, click on Gear (settings) at bottom right of video, and select slower playback speed
If any ignorant or skeptic person were to watch the tedious but excellent 8 part video series of America's Most Pressing Concern or 5 part series of The Silencing of God, both by Dave Miller, they would be shocked at the lies they've been taught about America's Christian heritage and the supposed wall of separation between church and state. They might also understand the reason for this nation's cultural change and moral decline. You don't take God out of society and not see significant impacts. I don't expect others to dedicate the time to watch the above two series, but for those here interested enough to manage just two videos, I highly recommend these presentations from two sources that provide a less tedious but rather convincing summary of the issue. Upon watching just this, you'll know more than 99% of other Americans who are no longer taught any of this history in school.
I'll take a look Joseph, I'm interested in learning more about the separation of church and State, while I can see very clearly the deterioration of our Nation because of leaving God out of our lives. There's always been those that would rather not allow anything at all religious, and especially the name of Jesus because if you want to see a bunch of non-believers squirm in their chairs, say the name of Jesus.
I don't begrudge anyone their superstitions. But I question the outrageous assumption that knuckling under to religion necessarily implies one whit of morality, or that its absence implies immorality. Growing up I witnessed the antics of what we called "Sunday Morning Christians." Saturday night they'd be carousing, drinking to excess, getting into bar fights, and I have no reason to believe they weren't out robbing and stealing or worse. But come morning they piously pranced, noses in the air, off to church. The idea that Sneeches having "Stars on thars" are somehow magically superior completely ignores the realities of human nature. Some people are incredibly good at lying even to themselves. I'd squirm in my chair if they told me they were sitting on crap in their pants as well. I'd be questioning their sanity and rational capacity either way.
Your response has little to do with the thread's topic, being a common defense for rejecting religion rather than discussing America's Christian heritage. Still, I'll not let your point be wasted since you have a common misrepresentation of religion that others here may also share. It's true that many religious people are hypocrites, behaving in godless ways and steering people away from their faith rather than towards it. To this, I give two responses. First, being religious does not equate to being a Christian. One often exists without the other. Second, a faith's truth is not determined by the behavior of its followers no more than it depends upon your believing it. Truth equals reality regardless of human reaction to it. Regarding my "outrageous assumption" that there's a connection between religion and morality, you're free to reject that premise, but fortunately America's founding fathers recognized Christianity's importance in building a new country, particularly a republic offering unprecedented rights and freedoms. Here's a small sampling of quotes supporting this popularly disputed claim: "The only means of establishing and perpetuating our republican forms of government is the universal education of our youth in the principles of Christianity by means of the Bible." - Benjamin Rush, signer of the Declaration of Independence, ratifier of the U.S. Constitution, Father of Public School System; March 2, 1791 publication: " A Defense of the Use of the Bible as a Schoolbook." "...Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams, signer of the Declaration of Independence, Continental Congress Delegate, 2nd president of the United States of America, October 11, 1798. "The praise of a civilized world is justly due to Christianity." - Alexander Hamilton - American Revolution War General, signer of the Constitution, author of the Federalist Papers; 1798 essay on the French Revolution. “And the belief in a God All Powerful, wise and good, is so essential to the moral order of the World and to the happiness of man, that arguments which enforce it cannot be drawn from too many sources.” - James Madison - signer of the U.S. Constitution, framer of the Bill of Rights, Author of the Federalist Papers, 4th President of United States: November 20, 1785 letter to Frederick Beasley. "Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged." - Northwest Ordinance Art. 3, July 13, 1787 Act of Confederation Congress that provided for new states west of the Ohio River. "The Bible is the chief moral cause of all that is good and the best corrector of all that is evil in human society – the best book for regulating the temporal concerns of men." - Noah Webster, Father of American Scholarship and Education, The Holy Bible ...With Amendments of the Language (New Haven: Durrie " Peck, 1833). "The moral principles and precepts found in the Scriptures ought to form the basis of all our civil constitutions and laws... All the… evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible... Our citizens should early understand that the genuine source of correct republican principles is the Bible, particularly the New Testament, or the Christian religion." - Noah Webster, "History of the United States" (New Haven: Durrie " Peck, 1832, 1833). "In the United States the sovereign authority is religious ... there is no other country in the world where the Christian religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America.” – Alexis de Tocqueville - French statesman, historian, and social philosopher; from his two-part work entitled “Democracy in America,” described as the most comprehensive analysis of the relationship between character and society in America ever written, 1835 and 1840. "I verily believe that Christianity is necessary to support a civil society" - Joseph Story - Father of American jurisprudence, U.S. Supreme Court Justice; March 24, 1801; Life and Letters of Joseph Story, William W. Story, editor (Boston: Charles C. Little and James Brown, 1851), Vol. I, p. 92. I have 100 pages and 20+ hours of video detailing thousands of statements made by our founding fathers, government proclamations, presidential speeches, and congressional actions showing their dependence upon God and Christian virtue for America's security, social order and prosperity. Like the Pilgrims and other early settlers, they clearly saw a connection between religion and morality, which is why the Bible and 3 other Bible based books were mandated in the nation's school system for nearly 300 years. (No surprise either that our culture has gone into chaos and moral decline since the Bible (and 3 primary, religious moral value books) was removed from the public school system.) Atheists are free to exclude God from their lives and so often use lame excuses to do so, like the poor behavior of hypocrite followers, detestable tactics of rich TV prosperity preachers, heretical teachings and actions of misguided churches, supposed Bible contradictions, and other objections easily found on skeptic websites. But, I've learned through much study that the evidence doesn't support the accusations or conclusions. A heart receptive to God will find the truth in Christianity, and as Christianity is further suppressed by relativists, the culture's moral values are destined to degrade ever more - which is, by the way, a Bible prophesy for the end times to come.