Atheism And Intelligence

Discussion in 'Atheism & Antitheism' started by Lon Tanner, Oct 7, 2018.

  1. Lon Tanner

    Lon Tanner Supreme Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2016
    Messages:
    5,596
    Likes Received:
    5,314
    People that know me and know that I do not attend any religious services may suspect that I am a Atheist, but never ask. Religion is something that I never bring up in conversation and do not generally discuss.
    Although I am a Atheist I don't know any personally and the ones I have met are not people whose company I enjoy.
     
    #1
    Lulu Moppet and Frank Sanoica like this.
  2. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Supreme Member
    Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2018
    Messages:
    11,252
    Likes Received:
    20,814
    I have known a number of atheists in my life, but most who think they are atheists are agnostics of one color or another. If you suspect you are an atheist, you probably are not one, just as people who suspect they are Christians, or Muslims or Buddhists probably are not those. The true atheists that I have known are very knowledgeable about God, and religion, and many are actually Bible scholars who can carry on scriptural arguments with the best pastors, preachers and priests.
     
    #2
  3. Lon Tanner

    Lon Tanner Supreme Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2016
    Messages:
    5,596
    Likes Received:
    5,314
    I know and understand the difference Don. I am a bona fide Atheist.
     
    #3
    Lulu Moppet and Frank Sanoica like this.
  4. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Supreme Member
    Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    13,106
    Likes Received:
    24,773
    I have known a few real atheists, but as @Don Alaska, the majority or those who believe they are atheists are not.
    To me, if an individual is still actively seeking proof of a Devine reality, then that person is NOT an atheist.
    A person who says they do not believe in a supreme being yet says that they hate that being is Not an atheist.
    My dad said he was an atheist for the majority of his life but sadly, he believed in the hereafter but hated religion and the people who espoused a religion and in particular.....Christians.

    The atheists I have known are well schooled and have no problem carrying on an intelligent conversation about why they believe the way they do.
    I have my beliefs and can easily back up why I believe the way I do and they have the same which is fine with me and we remained friends. They with their beliefs, me with mine......
    I love intelligence and have no qualm discussing a belief system or the lack of it but there’s the rub; I want intelligent conversation and not some ill informed individual who cannot fathom even the simplest form of a philosophical or rather, a theosophical dialog.
    They are the ones that I just shake my head at and kick the dust off my shoes and walk forward.
     
    #4
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2018
  5. Beatrice Taylor

    Beatrice Taylor Veteran Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2018
    Messages:
    879
    Likes Received:
    2,094
    I agree with @Don Alaska I've known a few people that claimed to be atheists but it seems to me that they were actually agnostics or believers that were railing against some perceived slight by God against them or their loved ones.

    I guess when it comes right down to it you can only be sure about your own religious beliefs and just accept what others tell you about themselves and their beliefs.
     
    #5
  6. Holly Saunders

    Holly Saunders Supreme Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2015
    Messages:
    51,949
    Likes Received:
    17,919
    copied this from Catholic.com

    Many people confuse or equate the terms, but there is a definite difference between the two.

    An atheist, on the one hand, believes that there is no God. Etymologically, the word means "not, or no God." In the atheist camp you can have a wide variety of reasons for their denial as well as differing levels of certainty. Some will deny emphatically that there is a God and claim to have "proof" of God's non-existence. Other's will simply say they do not believe there is a God though they could not prove God does not exist. The common denominator is that they do not believe in God.

    Agnosticism is not a belief system as atheism is; rather, it is a theory of knowledge. Etymologically, it means, "not, or no knowledge." An agnostic is someone who believes human beings simply cannot know anything metaphysical or beyond the physical realm; therefore, they cannot know whether things like spirit, angels or God exist at all.

    Contrary to popular belief all agnostics are not atheists. There are theistic agnostics--fideists, for example--who believe in God but do not believe that their understanding of God is knowable by natural means. Vatican I declared this belief to be contrary to the Catholic Faith in Session 3, Canons, chapter 2, canon 1:

    If anyone says that the one, true God, our creator and lord, cannot be known with certainty from the things that have been made, by the natural light of human reason: let him be anathema.



    here in the Uk we're not as a people, inclined to discuss religion with our friends or neighbours. We're very much less inclined to attend religious services than the USA, so it's less likely that any of us would know people who are atheists or agnostics..... That's not to say we believe in God any less, but that we just don't feel the need to shout it from the rooftops..in fact even our Sovereign, although always seen to be attending church is dissuaded from discussing religious matters in her public speeches.

    Sorry, gonna stop there.. I always make a promise to myself not to discuss religion or politics on a forum..
     
    #6
  7. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
    Staff Member Senior Staff Greeter Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    24,458
    Likes Received:
    42,940
    I have known people who identify as atheists, several who will say they are agnostic, and a whole lot of people for whom religion just isn't very important. Pretty much everyone I know who identifies as an atheist is what I would call an evangelical atheist, someone who is not satisfied with his own disbelief but angered by the belief of others. These are the ones who file lawsuits or complain because someone wishes them a Merry Christmas. I can't say that I understand that. I probably know other atheists who don't feel the need to tell me they're an atheist, but most are probably agnostic. It takes as much faith to be an atheist as to be a believer, but it's pretty easy to conclude that you don't know. A lot of Christians are agnostic part of the time.
     
    #7
  8. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Supreme Member
    Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2018
    Messages:
    11,252
    Likes Received:
    20,814
    Most of the true atheists I have known were in an academic setting, such as college professors or other students.
    I misread your post, @Lon Tanner. I thought you said you suspected you were an atheist , when in fact you were referring to others suspecting you were and atheist.
     
    #8
  9. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Supreme Member
    Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2018
    Messages:
    11,252
    Likes Received:
    20,814
    I am not convinced that many, if not most, of those you refer to as "evangelical atheists", such as Madeline Murray O'Hare are truly atheists. I think she was out to disrupt what she saw as the status quo and make money doing it. Others simply are disgusted by "religious people" with their shallow belief systems trying to impose their beliefs on others when their own faith is shallow and based on little thought. As @Ken Anderson says, it takes as much (or more) faith to be an atheist as it does to be a follower of one of the major religions.
     
    #9
  10. Tim Burr

    Tim Burr Veteran Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2016
    Messages:
    1,260
    Likes Received:
    2,619
    I have been called an Atheist before, due to the fact I questioned the
    existence of a single God.

    Guess the term for my believe would be Polytheism.

    Have learned over the years to keep my beliefs to myself and privately
    celebrate certain events and times of the year.

    The belief in multiple Gods can scare people as much or more, than saying
    you are an Atheist. IMHO
     
    #10
  11. Hedi Mitchell

    Hedi Mitchell Supreme Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2017
    Messages:
    8,846
    Likes Received:
    15,485
    Umm, yes no kinda sorta. My brother claims to be but think him more agnotisc .
    I find it odd, that when in crisis, or during shouts of joy even the atheists exclaim... Oh God.
    And, by the time you reach our age...we all at least once in our life,have had that ...Come to Jesus Meeting:D
     
    #11
  12. Cody Fousnaugh

    Cody Fousnaugh Supreme Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2015
    Messages:
    12,815
    Likes Received:
    8,810
    Have never known an atheist. I'll just keep it at that.
     
    #12
  13. Sheldon Scott

    Sheldon Scott Supreme Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2015
    Messages:
    2,995
    Likes Received:
    4,756
    I am an atheist. I'm quite sure anyone wo says they are an atheist is an atheist. Many churchgoers who call themselves Christians are truly atheists but don't want to admit it because they know they will have problems from family and friends.
     
    #13
  14. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Supreme Member
    Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    13,106
    Likes Received:
    24,773
    For some, it isn’t a matter of what a person truly is, it’s more of what is in vogue at the time.
    When “Godspell” and “Jesus Christ Superstar” were produced, there was indeed a surge of people who said they were Christians because it was simply the thing to be at the time.
    When Anton LaVey came out with the Satanic Bible, a few hundred thousand people bought it and proclaimed themselves satanists the same as when The Exorcist was shown and millions of people suddenly became possessed by demons.
    During the flower child era of the 60’s, people were into transandental meditation and mind expansion because why? It was the thing to be at the time. Remember the status symbol called a Neru jacket?
    I wonder how many of the Hollywood and socialite elites became Scientologists simply because it too was a status movement?
    How about the jailhouse spaghetti worshipper? Does he truly believe that pasta is his higher power or is he just proclaiming his individuality?
    The same as the above, atheism and agnosticism are both different and many folks just simply say they are in order to fit in with a particular crowd and without the slightest idea of what the ramifications of their proclamations entail.

    If there is a thing to be and it is different than the norm, somebody is going to proclaim it which definitely does take away from those who are genuine with their belief system whether it’s of a Devine higher power or completely believing that such an entity does not exist.
     
    #14
    Don Alaska and Holly Saunders like this.
  15. Holly Saunders

    Holly Saunders Supreme Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2015
    Messages:
    51,949
    Likes Received:
    17,919
    Superb Post Bobby...Nail and head!!
     
    #15
    Bobby Cole likes this.

Share This Page