France, Scotland Want To Kill Those Expensive Old People

Discussion in 'In the News' started by Dwight Ward, Sep 21, 2022.

  1. Dwight Ward

    Dwight Ward Very Well-Known Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2020
    Messages:
    2,815
    Likes Received:
    3,241
    https://care.org.uk/news/2022/09/france-to-debate-euthanasia-law
    Assisted Suicide 14 September 2022

    Some excerpts. MSP is Member of Scottish Parliament

    Under the current law in France, last updated in 2016, doctors can keep terminally ill patients sedated until death but not assist in their deaths.

    Terminally-ill patients can request to be kept in a “deep, continuous sedation altering consciousness until death”, only if their condition is causing them "great suffering" and is likely to lead to a quick death.

    Doctors are allowed to stop life-sustaining treatments, including artificial hydration and nutrition. Sedation and painkillers are allowed “even if they may shorten the person’s life”.

    Euthanasia is currently legal in the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Switzerland and Spain under certain conditions. French nationals have traveled to access it in other nations.

    Last week, assisted suicide proposals were officially lodged in the Scottish Parliament by Liberal Democrat MSP Liam McArthur. Michael Veitch, Scottish Parliamentary Officer at CARE, told the BBC:

    “It is deeply sad to see proposals of this nature return to the Scottish Parliament today. Evidence from other countries clearly shows that legalising assisted suicide opens a Pandora’s Box of harms.

    “Safeguards always fail. Pressure leads to expansion of legislation, making vulnerable and marginalised groups eligible for a state-assisted death. This is why no major disability organisation supports assisted suicide, and why many in the disability community are ardently opposed.

    “No guarantees can be made by today’s MSPs about the shape of ‘assisted dying’ legislation in years to come. No adequate set of safeguards have been devised in other countries where assisted suicide is legal. Given these facts, a change in the law should be unthinkable for MSPs.”
     
    #1
  2. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Veteran Member
    Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2018
    Messages:
    6,890
    Likes Received:
    12,500
    Sedation and assisted suicide quickly becomes euthanasia. Obama was a fan, but I wonder if he still is as he ages?
     
    #2
  3. Beth Gallagher

    Beth Gallagher Veteran Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2018
    Messages:
    14,739
    Likes Received:
    28,251
    I must be missing the part about the "expensive old people." Suicide is by definition death by one's own hand. I believe that assisted suicide should be legal everywhere, at least in the cases of the terminally ill. If I had the choice of an easy 'assisted' death or painful mindless lingering on life support, please pull the plug.
     
    #3
    Jerry Adams and John Houlihan like this.
  4. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
    Staff Member Senior Staff Greeter Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    20,840
    Likes Received:
    34,807
    It seems clear to me that where suicide is legal, it will eventually become the only available or affordable option. On the other hand, we really need to quit arresting people who kill themselves. That can only cause a health problem in the jails.
     
    #4
  5. Dwight Ward

    Dwight Ward Very Well-Known Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2020
    Messages:
    2,815
    Likes Received:
    3,241
    Many people keep 'missing the part' where conspiracy theories are becoming obvious conspiracy fact, such as the globalists' push for massive population reduction through globally engineered food and energy shortages along with the introduction of bio-weaponized diseases and vaccines. For those people, who desperately cling to the pablum and propaganda spoon-fed to the public by mainstream sources, there is little to be done. Ignorance is bliss, as they say.
     
    #5
  6. Thomas Stillhere

    Thomas Stillhere Very Well-Known Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2021
    Messages:
    841
    Likes Received:
    1,761
    We already have a lot of walking dead in our congress and senate, use them as test dummies.
     
    #6
    John Brunner and Beth Gallagher like this.
  7. Beth Gallagher

    Beth Gallagher Veteran Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2018
    Messages:
    14,739
    Likes Received:
    28,251
    Thanks for calling me ignorant, which I take issue with but that's neither here nor there. I read the article you posted and there is not a single reference to "expensive old people." But you are correct; I don't choose to see conspiracy behind every bush... I'd rather live my life in blissful ignorance since there isn't much of it left.

    You need not respond to me. You just want to argue and I'm done.
     
    #7
  8. John Houlihan

    John Houlihan Well-Known Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2022
    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    256
    They Shoot Horses, Don't They?
     
    #8
  9. Dwight Ward

    Dwight Ward Very Well-Known Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2020
    Messages:
    2,815
    Likes Received:
    3,241

    I'm not bothered than you don't agree with me but you are arguing and I suppose you're done as long as you get in the last word. Is it alright if I beg to differ?

    It's perfectly true that the article doesn't have the specific phrase 'expensive old people'. However, it would be naive to assume that avoiding the cost of maintaining the elderly is not one of the prime motivations by the state in pushing suicide. Doubtless there are people involved whose motives are primarily care and compassion for the suffering but I wouldn't extend those motives to governments which are becoming increasingly fascist and cruel. The phrase 'useless eaters' applies strongly here.

    I'm not calling you naive or ignorant, Beth. I know that neither is true.
     
    #9
  10. Hoot Crawford

    Hoot Crawford Veteran Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2017
    Messages:
    753
    Likes Received:
    1,105
    What I find interesting is not the off the wall theories themselves, but the psychology of those who believe in them and propagate them. Over the years I have read multiple articles and they all seem to come to the same general conclusions. Here's the result of some studies (I just picked these 2 since they were at the top of my googlizer search..) about them

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6282974/

    https://www.apa.org/news/podcasts/speaking-of-psychology/conspiracy-theories

    Of course, the "true believers" will dismiss all of this as just part of an effort to discredit them :)
     
    #10
    Nancy Hart and Beth Gallagher like this.
  11. Dwight Ward

    Dwight Ward Very Well-Known Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2020
    Messages:
    2,815
    Likes Received:
    3,241
    That's too funny. Keep on trusting Google to bring you unbiased truth.

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinio...ts-to-censor-information-and-swing-elections/
    Google manipulates search results to censor information and ....

    dailycitizen.focusonthefamily.com › investigation-exp
    Investigation Exposes How Google Manipulates Your Search

    popularresistance.org › googles-eric-schmidt-admits-political-censorship-of...
    Google Admits Political Censorship Of Search Results

    The first article was interesting. Four quick comments;

    I was not familiar with googlizer but it appears it relies finally on the google search engine which has been shown to be in the lead at censoring search results to achieve specific political goals. Search 'google censors', perhaps using a different search engine. That fact is well documented but I expect you will still insist it is yet another conspiracy theory.

    There is much studied language in the article to impress and suggest that it is somehow based in science. It is, though, in brief, a hit piece that suggests that 'true believers', as you disparaging label broad groups of people, are mentally ill. In essence, these are old insults couched in scientific sounding jargon.

    The article states that conspiracy theories have been common to every culture historically, as if this reflects negatively on them. That powerful people have always conspired with each other to increase their power and wealth throughout recorded history and so perhaps cause conspiracy theories, isn't something the article mentions.

    I have studied the alternative media since the 90s but I'm afraid I'm not that 'true believer' you disparage. I would describe myself as a conspiracy researcher rather than a theorist. I have some scientific training and I believe nothing without proof, except for the existence of God. I'm not subject to confirmation bias which the article cites several times as being the failing of conspiracy theorists. Proof being hard to come by, I fall back on evidence, which is a different animal. Evidence shows that a thing is more or less likely. I think it is highly likely that a cabal of corrupt people want to rule the world, kill many people and end freedom for the rest. Since you are so grounded in reality compared to people who suspect that some conspiracies are likely to be true, I suppose that sounds crazy to you. I hope you will be happy to keep on getting the truth of things from google.
     
    #11
    Ken Anderson likes this.
  12. Hoot Crawford

    Hoot Crawford Veteran Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2017
    Messages:
    753
    Likes Received:
    1,105
    lol - I know you can't see this or are able to agree, but your above response is a perfect validation of the 2 studies, and most other studies I have read on the subject. For example, you claim you are not subject to confirmation bias, but discredit a search engine and then you also discredited the two studies because you disagree with them, as I predicted.

    Have a great day!

    edited to add = you are trying to make this about me, and it isn't. It is about what the experts who have studied the topic have found.
     
    #12
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2022 at 7:54 PM
  13. Dwight Ward

    Dwight Ward Very Well-Known Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2020
    Messages:
    2,815
    Likes Received:
    3,241
    You're a funny guy. How does discrediting a search engine which has proven itself to be biased towards results the power structure wishes everyone to believe prove my own confirmation bias or any other personal flaw? That's nonsensical. I suppose the fact that I use other search engines than google proves my personal insanity.
    It most certainly is about you since you, like many, endlessly fall to the fallacy of 'appeal to authority' and refuse to look at evidence contrary to your beliefs, meanwhile disparaging anyone whose viewpoint is not shared by your precious 'authority'. It can be traumatic to lose that trust but someday you might find the courage.
    You're also a little too quick on the draw. I discredited the first article (quite well I think) but not the second since I did not read it. Unlike you, I look at much information contrary to my own opinions but enough nonsense is enough.
     
    #13
  14. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
    Staff Member Senior Staff Greeter Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    20,840
    Likes Received:
    34,807
    You owe an apology to Google, @Dwight Ward. I think that if you typed the apology into Google's query form, that should suffice.
     
    #14
  15. Dwight Ward

    Dwight Ward Very Well-Known Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2020
    Messages:
    2,815
    Likes Received:
    3,241
    I tried. They sent me an email saying that it was their current policy not to accept apologies from Republican Christian white supremacist terrorist election denier conspiracy theorists.
     
    #15

Share This Page