Man Charged In Death Of Suspected Burglar Leaving In Car

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by Frank Sanoica, Jan 30, 2017.

  1. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Supreme Member
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    Yes, or No? Can you legally shoot at someone stealing your car?

    "MADELIA, Minn. (AP) — A Minnesota homeowner was charged with second-degree manslaughter after prosecutors say he shot at suspected burglars driving away from his house.
    David A. Pettersen of rural Madelia was charged Monday in Watonwan County District Court in the death Saturday of 19-year-old Nicholas Embertson, of Madelia.
    The Star Tribune reports (http://strib.mn/2kHiMfg ) that the 65-year-old Pettersen told a sheriff’s deputy he fired at the car as it was leaving the house about 7 a.m.
    A deputy called to the scene stopped the car with three men inside, including Embertson, who died at a hospital in Madelia."


    "Bail was set at $100,000 for Pettersen, but he was released without having to post bail after agreeing to several conditions. He didn’t immediately respond to a phone message left at his home Monday."

    http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/homeowner-charged-in-death-of-fleeing-suspected-burglar/
     
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  2. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Supreme Member
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    I thought you could only shoot in self defense? Stealing a car is theft. I would hope you can't kill someone just because they steal something.
     
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  3. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    Laws differ from state to state, but I don't know of any state that would allow someone to shoot someone who is driving away with their car.

    If a car owner is in a car when someone breaks into it, or tries to enter it in a carjacking attempt, some states would allow him to shoot on the basis that his life may also be at risk, since carjackers have been known to kill people.

    In most states with laws friendly to gun rights, you could shoot someone breaking into your house, or who was walking around your house after having broken into it, for the same reasons, but you couldn't shoot him when he was leaving your house.

    Basically, it's.a matter of whether you might reasonably believe that your life, or that of a loved on, was at risk.

    It is quite possible, however, that a home or car owner might get a jury that was friendly to his case, as juries have the right to find someone innocent regardless of the laws, if they believe the law to be unjust. That's called jury nullification. Lawyers don't talk about it much because, of course, they don't want it to catch on.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 31, 2017
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  4. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Supreme Member
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    @Chrissy Cross
    Agreed. Not only can't kill, but can't use "lethal force" means.
     
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  5. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Supreme Member
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    @Ken Anderson
    I like that nullification deal! Never heard the term before; as you say, the legal wheels keep such little facts secret among themselves. Castle Doctrine is another. Some years back, NM passed C.D. applying to the individual in his/her car, as you mentioned. Basically, it gives the invaded similar rights to home invasion; the car is considered an "extrension" of one's body, thus an attack on the home or car is similar to actual bodily attack. Can't say as I'm in complete agreement with that one, though.
    Frank

    EDIT: I wondered about why the bond was waived and the car-owner released.....
     
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  6. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    Here's some information about jury nullification, and here is another discussion. The California Supreme Court has ruled that judges can remove jurors who suggest that they may act in any manner other than by the letter of the law, so jurors are encouraged to keep to themselves until the case is over and they are in the jury room deliberating. Judges will rarely, if ever, instruct a jury about this option, and will often instruct them that it is not an option if asked. But it still is.

    Just guessing, but I expect the judge was sympathetic and did not consider the man to be a threat.
     
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  7. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Supreme Member
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  8. Sheldon Scott

    Sheldon Scott Supreme Member
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    There was a similar case in my hometown just a few months ago. The thief didn't die but was wounded. The homeowner was not charged.
     
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  9. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Supreme Member
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    I learned about the term jury nullification during the OJ trail, I think.
     
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  10. Cody Fousnaugh

    Cody Fousnaugh Supreme Member
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    When the vehicle is used as a weapon, as in, the driver driving the vehicle towards a person, firing a gun and injuring or killing the driver is appropriate/legal. When the vehicle is being driven away from a person, they have no legal right to fire a gun at it. Driving away from a person is not considered "self-defense".
     
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  11. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Supreme Member
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    Unless the person being driven away from was being shot at from within the vehicle. I'd think that justifiable.
    Frank
     
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  12. Cody Fousnaugh

    Cody Fousnaugh Supreme Member
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    Yes, if the person in the vehicle, IOW, the driver or a passenger, is shooting, then it would be a justifiable for another person to shoot at the vehicle. If nobody is shooting from the vehicle, no.
     
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