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Discussion in 'Conspiracies & Paranormal' started by Ken Anderson, Jan 11, 2018.
They probably aren't a match for the military though if you believe agenda 21.
While I don't trust the govt completely, this is an area where I part company with conservative thinking.
Cities will be the most dangerous places to be in such a situation. Not only might you be more likely to be killed outright, but cities are more dependent on goods being shipped in on a regular basis. For another, city officials who, by then, will be looking out mostly for themselves and their own, will be quick to consider anyone who has prepared for such an emergency to be hoarding. The police, on orders and, most likely, on their own, will take whatever you have to be redistributed to others in need, some getting a larger share than others.
Farms and rural areas, where people are more likely to have the material goods, as well as the skills necessary to support themselves, will do better, but they will have to defend it once the cities have been picked clean.
People who have prepared ahead of time, not only by storing up goods, but by learning the skills that they need, and who have prepared places for themselves that are truly off the path, will do much better, but no one will be safe.
There is also the fact that most homes in the United States are not built for life without electricity and utilities. Many cities, and even some rural areas, won't even permit wood stoves. Without heating oil, we would have no way to heat our home, and our boiler won't operate for an extended period of time without electricity even if we had a store of heating oil. Our house is not built for a wood stove, and that is probably the case with most people today.
Our camp up north has a wood stove, and we have a hundred acres of woods, with an extended wooded area beyond our own land. Currently, we have plenty of wildlife but in the situation that we're discussing here others will be hunting it as well, even if I were a skilled hunter. My "no hunting" signs will be useful only if I can enforce them.
Martial law or not, the 2nd amendment, while not realistically sustainable during a catastrophic event, is at least a reminder of what government soldiers can expect at each and every household.
In any event, I do seriously doubt if the majority of our soldiers will have the mental wherewithal to fight and kill their own people but perhaps, the civil war is a reminder that I might possibly be wrong.
The only problem is @Ken Anderson...the Government will probably "seize" most of those 100 acres from you under the provisions of Agenda 21.
Quite awhile back I read an article by some former soldiers and law enforcement officers, when it came time to reenlist, etc. they were basically asked to sign a form saying they could kill one of our own if the circumstances warranted that. Some of them could not do that and are not working in those areas anymore.
There is also "rumor" that foreign soldiers are being trained to work in America to enforce Martial Law if and when it comes to that. They will not hesitate to kill Americans.
In a situation without electricity, they'll have a lot of other things to worry about. I think it might take them a while to get to me.
But "they" will get around to it sooner or later. By that time you might have an "army" of poachers trying to homestead of your property too. Maybe with them you could start your own Militia.
I really don't think we are going to be here to live through this kind of thing...but you never know.
And after you've struggled and tried to survive for maybe a year, they'll come and get you anyway.
But the government will be without electricity too. They won't be able to travel very far and will have all they can do to keep an army together. I think Ken will be safe for a long, long time.
Good. It's settled then. If we get hit we'll all meet at Ken's house.
Begging your pardon, sir, but I feel I must address your statements. The first highlighted: When we lived in our cabin in the woods, lighting was achieved by use of a Coleman camping lamp burning Propane. Refrigeration was easily accomplished by obtaining an old (very old!) big Servel gas refrigerator, which also had a large freezer compartment, also run on Propane. Heat, no problem, plenty of firewood. Air conditioning absolutely unnecessary at 6700 feet altitude. Small appliances? Some were replaced by our hands and arms.
Second highlighted: First, hunting is easily carried out using a bow and arrows. However, my firearms are part and parcel of my very existence, and as such, I learned very long ago how to make usable gunpowder from easily-obtainable materials. I even made primary explosive material to make my own firearms primers.
If you do not remember the early commercials and ads showing a vividly-colored blue flame, the insignia of the Servel gas refrigerator, check out Servel . The highly-efficient Servels had NO MOVING PARTS, nothing to wear out, no compressor. They suddenly vanished from the retail markets after some years of American sales, supposedly suffering the fate of market-removal after purchase of controlling-interests in the parent company, Sweden's Electrolux, notably by Whirlpool Corp, which shelved further manufacture of gas refrigerators.
Begging your pardon, Sir; but I feel that I must address YOUR statements.
What you are discussing is a completely different scenario than what life would be like after an EMP attack on the United States. Making a decision to go and live in a cabin with no power or water is completely different than having everything in the whole country come to a standstill because the electrical grid has crashed, and there is no power, no phone, no internet, no gas (propane or fuel).
In your circumstance, you were able to set yourself up with propane powered appliances , but you still had to have a source to renew the propane. If you have no fuel for a vehicle, and no one else does either, you are not going to be able to buy propane anymore.
Someone who has prepared themself to live “off-grid” will certainly be able to last longer than someone who lives in a city and has no knowledge of surviving; but even those people usually have access to some kind of supplies when they need something. Even the Amish rely on nearby towns and stores for their supplies; and since they are a community that works together, I think that they would probably do better than most people.
Eventually, things are going to wear out or break, and not be able to be replaced. Most of us can’t make our own clothes and shoes, and even if we could sew well enough to make our clothing, we still need material to sew them from.
It is my option that if something of this nature does happen, whether from a natural disaster of huge proportions, or from an EMP attack, that our government will have no problem rounding up people and taking them to wherever they want to. Look at what happened when we had the flooding in Texas last fall.
People were begging for someone to rescue them and take them somewhere with food, water, and a bed. We will see the same thing on a much larger scale if the whole United States (or even a large portion of it) is affected by this kind of a disaster.
Most people, whether military or civilian will agree that there are times when drastic measures must be taken in order to preserve life to many by the taking of one. There presently is not one day that goes by when someone must choose between life and death of another citizen for a myriad of reasons. Bank robbers, drug pushers, etc. generally all face someone with the ability to end their lives by the pulling of a trigger but martial law is much different than keeping the bad guys at bay.
My wife and I went through a type of martial law when the tornadoes went through the town we were living in. A curfew was set and enforced in order to keep people from pilfering and stealing other people's belongings. Whether a job called for coming home later than 1900 hrs didn't matter because everyone had to be wherever they going by that hour and no later or else.......................!
Martial law in the U.S. is meant to instill an air of civility and organization in the middle of mayhem and not to ransack the homes of innocent citizens which is why the second amendment is so important.
I do still contend that American soldiers do know the difference between the bad guys and good guys and would more than likely refrain from hurting an innocent civilian and fellow citizen no matter what their orders are. A lot of officers didn't come back from the Nam alive because they gave their troops orders that would make them do stupid things like killing civilians.
Besides, there are far more armed battle trained veterans out here than there are in the active military if that is of any comfort...........................
I am personally very little concerned about an EMP attack, and only wanted to mention that life does not "revolve" around the availability of commercial electric power. Perhaps for Society in it's entirety, I'll yield to that concensus, for the individual, no.
Whilst I might agree than a "few" individuals in the U.S. today do not necessarily rely on electricity for their personal use, they would be however, be affected in some way indirectly by the lack of the stuff.
For you and others who wish to use the propane approach, it might be a good question to ask how would one buy it when none is available because of the lack of electricity to harvest it and ship it?
Nearly everything is now controlled by computer which was the big deal regarding the Y2K scare. It wasn't that we wouldn't have electricity because all of the windings in motors were fried and everything else reverse polarized, it was because the computers that rely on electricity would not be operational which controls the grids not to mention gas production, clean water, the sanitation system, commercial shipping systems etc.
After an EMP, only the strong will indeed survive...............................
I knew it was inevitable that I would be "called" regarding the energy "staples" we employed, given extreme National duress. I expected it, and do not wish to contest it. Perhaps a more revealing thought would be to tell of a young man, an Engineer, living in the small Colorado town of Florence, who was being promoted to Plant Engineer at the Flintkote Co. Facility in Blue Diamond, NV. As a new employee of Flintkote, I replaced him in Florence. He showed me the house he had been renting there, as we got to know each other. In his back yard, a single, small pipe protruded from the ground, with connection made to the house. Curious, I asked him about it. It was actually a gas pipe, driven into the ground, to direct flow of the copious amounts of Natural Gas seeping continuously around the area, from the ground! His house had "free gas", with which to cook and heat!
While such circumstance is far from common, it nonetheless illustrates one of the "outs" which will be available to a limited "some".
Don't dismay. Humanity will prevail, in lesser numbers, maybe (which is a good thing, no offense intended to the lost), regardless of the degree of cataclysmic event prevalence.
Just my opinion. Frank
Perhaps the greatest aftershock of an EMP might be that no one really expected it to happen.
Just as California is not only prepared for earthquakes and the northern part of the U.S. is not only prepared for harsh winters, they expect it. They KNOW that it's going to happen so not only are the physical elements in place to help out, the mental attitude is one of foreseeing the inevitable.
When an ambulance is outfitted for emergencies, it doesn't do anything for anyone until the people who operate them get in them and do what they have to do. The operators of the vehicle totally expect a heart attack or a gun shot wound to happen every time they go on shift so the mind set is a level up from simple preparedness.
There are only a miniscule amount of people who will know what to do if a cataclysmic event makes the pages of history, but in reality, how many of those few will actually have the clarity of mind that comes with expectation? The kind of clarity that casts all fear, worry and doubt aside and allows the person to concentrate on the event itself?
Not me that's for sure. I would panic if it happened out of the blue.
I'm not prepared and would never be prepared enough. I'm one that shops almost every day so I don't even have a weeks supply of food.
That's why I just want it over...quickly.
I can just see it happening on a 110 degree day, no more A/C and internet. That alone is horrific.
How would I even reach my kids?
This is one reason that living in a third world country is not that bad a lot of my neighbours are without electricity and do very well. I do what I can to eliminate my reliance on electricity. This in a strange way might help these people who are diabetic getting them of processed food and back to natural foods a lot of experiments show that when people go back to natural foods their diabetes goes away. With an EMP the cities would suffer the most and the danger for the others is the city people going into the countryside and take what they have. I have plans for building a wood gasifier which converts wood into gas that can be used to run generators. I do have solar water heater for showers and washing. I could live without electricity or make my own if I had to. We only get electricity 10 hours a day now so it is not a big change.
Ive also lived a fairly easy and sheltered life...I don't think I could cope with the ravaging hordes of desperate people...drug addicts without their drugs, criminals, starving scared people.
There would me rape, murder etc at every turn.
I can't even function unless I get my 8 hrs of sleep....no thanks.
If you start thinking about the actual reality of what it will be like...it's depressing.
If I was younger then I'm sure I would give it a try but not now.
Somewhat related to this discussion, when I moved to Texas, I first lived in a condominium in Brownsville that had air conditioning, and my car had air conditioning. I was not used to the kind of heat we had in the Rio Grande Valley, and couldn't get used to it as long as I was living in an air conditioned place and driving an air conditioned car. My time at work was miserable. I had to use Gold Bond powder in order to walk, given the heat rash that I had gotten, and which would just start to alleviate during a weekend, only to start all over again on Monday.
Later, when I moved to a house in Los Fresnos that didn't have air conditioning, I thought I'd buy a window conditioner or two in order to make the house livable, and meanwhile try to get by with fans. After a couple of fairly miserable days trying to sleep in that kind of heat, I got used to it. Although I still felt the heat, of course, I found that a fan was sufficient. My rash went away and never returned.
When I bought a new car, I purposefully bought one without air conditioning. When I got married, my wife made me have air conditioning put into it, but it never worked well, or for long.
My point is, as Martin pointed out, there are people who are living without electricity in their homes, so that part of it won't be so hard for them to bear. They are likely still dependent on other services or products that are currently require electricity, such as the distribution of food to grocery stores and other products or services that they use.
I have visited several Amish homes, and I can tell you that they are not roughing it. You will find switches on the wall that turn gas lights on and off. You won't find much use of oil or kerosene lamps because they have determined that these are not healthy alternatives to electricity. You will find refrigerators operating on butane or another gas, and wood heating and cooking stoves are as much of an advantage as they are a hardship, particularly when you have a ready supply of wood available. But do they have the ability to produce their own propane, or make their own oil? If not, whether or not they are aware of it, they are dependent on electricity.
Depending on what they do for a living, many of the Amish do use electricity in their work and, depending on the rules in their particular church colony, some of them consider electricity to be okay if it is supplied by a generator rather than through the power grid.
But it's different when you are used to that way of life.
I didn't have A\C for a week in Fresno last summer when my air died and it was torture.
A neighbor lent me a portable unit but that didn't do the best job but it helped.
There are and have been people preparing for these kinds of disasters and yet even with all they have and are doing...if the worse scenerio comes they still will be shocked at how "unprepared" they are.
So many of us though will have no clue what to do as we have been spoiled rotten here in America.