Abortion: Pros And Cons

This abortion stuff has to be the top of Hippocratic Mountain. The same people (?) who tell us that vaccination, mask wearing, and such infringe on our constitution rights have no problem working on our women's privacy. It's also interesting that a blob of protoplasm needs more attention than the kid being born or making it through childhood: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/infant-mortality-rate-by-country , Not that it matters that much, but we (the US) don't do that well with life expectancy compared to other developed (and some lesser developed countries): https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/

 

Does not matter what is posted or shown, the heart/mind is deceitful and desperately wicked who can know? it is not "undifferentiated mass of cells" to them it is "sexual accident"

 

Joseph Carl,

1. I respect your right to express your opinion / beliefs.
2. Do you know Embryology 101?
3. Why do you assume we -oldies- wont change our way of thinking. See, I have changed about my firm position on the death penalty, deportation...and few other subjects.
4. I could explain why a fetus is not a human being but a chart few post below tells it very well.
5. Why no to abort an unwanted fetus which, for instance, is the product of rape...or a wanted one but with genetic malformations?
6. Do you think overturning abortion will save lives? IMHO , it will lead to more deaths since women will resource to illegal ways to abort.
7. If men could get pregnant abortion would be sacrosanct.....

 

MY daughter was told to abort 2 of her children because of "supposed" problems. She did neither and they are both in the 30s. So leave the medical excuse off. It is not a fetus it is a baby you can't explain anything.

 

this was an excellent read, and this old girl plans to remain teachable, and never be too set in my ways either I am glad to learn about the many things you mention that I did not know Joseph. My strong adherence to pro-life does come from my belief in the God of the bible, and my common sense is in there too now, although it wasn't functioning when I was very young, before I came to believe in God. Almost forgot, I would like to see the videos Joseph, and you are welcome to send the links either here (people can choose not to click the links) or you can send them to my private messages Thanks again, Denise

 

Thank you so much Denise Happyfeet. I've never received such a nice compliment on any forum site and am elated that you appreciate truth in the matter. If you watch the videos, you'll not only reinforce your Biblical values, but gain a biological/secular perspective too that might help you influence others on the sensitive issue when the occasion arises.

I was a life long, ignorant, Christian, pro-abortion advocate up until 2 years ago when I actually studied the subject. Like others, I believed that a woman's individual rights trumped the moral issue. But more importantly, I held that the baby wasn't a baby until it was born. I was wrong on both accounts. Let me briefly explain. Understand, if the embryo, fetus, or baby is NOT a human, then no justification for abortion is needed. But if the embryo, fetus, or baby IS a human, then no justification for abortion is adequate.

From a biological perspective, a human embryo is created within a week of when a sperm fertilizes an egg. The embryo has its own complete DNA makeup for an individual human being. It may be reliant upon, connected to, and inside of the mother, but it is a separate living, human individual. It is NOT the woman's body. It can't be when it has a potential different gender, blood type, and DNA coding of physical attributes. The fact that a fetus is a live human being is recognized by even leading abortionists and the courts. Thus, the legal precedent for justifying such killing has been to deny an embryo or fetus "personhood" (protected by the 14th amendment's due process clause). One may have a subjective moral opinion on whether abortion is ok or not, but there's no escaping the reality that human babies are being legally killed based upon their location in the womb. And how does a baby change from a nonperson in the womb to a legal person a few hours later outside of the womb? Obviously, it's not a biological or rational point of definition. It's a clever way to legalize the killing of babies that are still protected by other laws, like the 38 states that have fetal homicide laws. Isn't it ironic that a criminal can go to prison for accidentally killing a pregnant mother's baby, but she can intentionally have the baby killed herself with no legal recourse at all? Isn't there a social value problem too when the eggs of turtles, raptors, and other wildlife are protected from injury by numerous state and federal laws, while human fetuses or babies are free to be killed?

The morality of abortion is a tougher issue because we no longer share common religious values. For the atheist, materialist, naturalist, or anyone else believing in current evolutionary theory, there is no basis for morality. If we're all just animals evolving from chance chemical processes, then there is no reason to value one life over another. Personal convenience, survival of the strongest, population control, or any number of excuses can legitimately be used to validate any unwanted member of society. Such a view may be sadly misguided, but at least it's consistent and rational. The Christian that supports abortion though has no such excuse, and the latest Pew Research studies show 53% of Catholic/Christian believers support abortion being mostly or completely legal. This contradicts the Bible scriptures that serve as the foundation of their faith. I find it incredulous that God's people, the Church, have helped elect liberal leaders and judges that have caused the death of over 63 million babies in America since 1973. Do they not understand that each of these babies in the womb are a creation of God and possess an eternal soul? And while a majority of them now also support gay marriage, do they not remember or believe that God destroyed the wicked cities of Sodom and Gomorrah for these same two national sins?

For any believer in God, Biblical morality, or acceptance of a soul holding a pro-choice position or anyone else undecided on the issue, I'd suggest that the following 3 YouTube videos are worth watching. They offer 3 excellent speaker perspectives and arguments that you won't see or hear on the news. I think the 2.5 hours would sway your view correctly as they did for me. I recommend watching them in order and starting the 3rd, last passionate one at the 5 minute mark.

 

One either believes the scriptures or they don't, it is entirely their choice. I don't need to listen to anyone to determine whether abortion or same sex marriage is moral or not, the scriptures are clear on the subject. I am not a die hard fundamentalist in the sense of God wrote it, I believe it, that settles it. Perception, interpretation comes into play also, some people have problems with reasoning and reading comprehension, in other word they don't understand and are willingly ignorant of what scriptures say or they just down right reject what scriptures say because they don't like its commandments and don't want to follow its instructions and teachings.
Inconvenience, gets in the way of their social life style, way of life. I like to say it is what it is, they are not going to change and neither am I so I don't fret about the behavior of others considering 2 Timothy 3:1-5, these are the type of people and their behavior I will be in contact with every day so I arm myself ready to defend my faith come what may.
The way I figure it is God is in control and all these babies are asleep in the Lord awaiting resurrection day and final vindication at judgment day, no one gets away with murder, everyone will answer or give account for the deeds done in the body good or bad (John 3:19; Romans 14:12)

 

[QUOTE="Joseph Carl, [/QUOTE]

1. To put any value on biblical words.... tales handed down ...is senseless.

2. To try to influence others is an attack on the liberty of mankind.

Some people remind me of an acquaintance who forced his daughter to deliver a baby that was the result of a) rape, b) a rape that caused her to be infected with AIDS and c) a rape so brutal that rendered her sterile.

 

1. To put any value on biblical words.... tales handed down ...is senseless.

2. To try to influence others is an attack on the liberty of mankind.

Some people remind me of an acquaintance who forced his daughter to deliver a baby that was the result of a) rape, b) a rape that caused her to be infected with AIDS and c) a rape so brutal that rendered her sterile.[/QUOTE]
You can always find stories to try and sway based on emotions.

 

I think the Texas law concerning a detectable heartbeat straddles the issue enough to please both sides.

 

I'm so sorry I didn't get a "notice" I had your post here Joseph. I had turned them off for this thread. I was really not expecting so many here to be pro-abortion, and I had to sort it out I guess. I had looked this a.m. for latest posts and found yours. What an amazing, God-sent read. So much I didn't fully understand and I appreciate you sharing it here. I will watch the videos, and thank you again, Denise PS I've been reading a book by Randy Alcorn called "The Good Life is Giving". Basically, you can imagine, it's about being unselfish, telling stories of people that have come to know the joy and the True Good Life, that Jesus taught us about in the bible. Relating what I've read to abortions, opens my eyes to the selfishness of it, like you said if the fetus is a human being which I believe with not, one, single doubt.

 

I understand where you are coming from Ed, but I have to speak out in saying that it's God I would strive to please, not people. I believe our lives here on Earth are not the end when we die. I believe that there will be a judgement day. I'm a sinner saved "only" by the Grace of God.

 

Yes, I believe all is in God's hands as well, but I forget sometimes and want to take control and that is the root of my unhappiness, despair, and depression at times. I always end up on my knees, or not, crying out for God to please help my unbelief, and He always does.

 

The fact is, you HAD a choice, and more than once. So why do you believe other women should not have a choice? Should they be condemned to a life they don't want?

I never had an abortion nor ever even considered it, but I fully support a woman's right to choose. Having said that, I do have a problem with late-term abortion so there does need to be some determination of viability.