Internal Combustion Or Evs

Discussion in 'Automotive' started by Craig Swanson, May 8, 2019.

  1. Craig Swanson

    Craig Swanson Very Well-Known Member
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    While this is good news to boost our economy I have to question how many more lithium-ion batteries will be produced now we are hearing about the emerging popularity of sodium-ion ones. Evidently they are cheaper, last longer than lithium.
     
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  2. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Veteran Member
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    @Craig Swanson
    Guidelines. But by what definition of importance or significance to the environment? "We must do this and this, for if we do not...........blah, blah."

    Am I off track? Frank
     
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  3. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Veteran Member
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    Good question which raises still another question regarding recycling.
    When the metals used to build the batteries are exchanged for less expensive metals, then building recycling plants become financially less desirable from a profit standpoint.
    As it is, only about 90% of the batteries can be reused but the pulverizing / sorting process gleans around $25K a ton for the reusable waste.
    Note: Dunno why, but any aluminum used in the construction is listed as unusable waste. (?)
    Note 2: The chems are apparently neutralized but to what end?

    China’s governmental mandate for the building of recycling plants is commendable but being the somewhat doubting person that I am, I do wonder about the total science of the plants and how complete the recycling process is to be expected. China hasn’t been overly protective of its environment as it is so I have doubts as to how complete the venture will be.

    On the other hand, I find that Australia’s venture into incorporating the obvious hazards with building electric cars to be a little more hopeful. There is one concern though and I’m wondering why an offshore plant is being so heavily favored? Certainly, the portion of each battery that is not reusable winding up in the ocean is just as undesirable as in the friendly neighborhood land fill.
    That said, I have a little more trust when a free people get their heads together to solve a problem but of course in this case, with a high degree of oversight.

    It would seem that as always, when some new massive innovation takes place there is little to no thought about the aftermath of making that product.
    No one can see the future but everyone can theorize based on logic. E.g. make a cute small toy, kids swallow them. Instead of cutting more trees to make paper bags, make plastic ones which aren’t recyclable. (Granted, making small toys isn’t a real innovation but it makes a point)

    My hope is that the manufacturers of electric cars will think of every aspect regarding the entire life of the vehicle, from gleaning the raw materials for building it to its eventual demise. Although that really isn’t the case thus far because in 2011 many propositions said that the batteries couldn’t be properly recycled but the cars were already on the road.
    Maybe with the new initiatives things will start to look a little better.
     
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  4. Craig Swanson

    Craig Swanson Very Well-Known Member
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    Good points and well researched @Bobby Cole. Australia has been using an offshore plant for refining lithium but Labor (equivalent to your Democrats) .. which could well be in power after Saturday.. is proposing an on shore refinery for its sodium-ion batteries. Hey I see the emergence of EVs as an extension of the ICE cars. Visionary men such as Henry Ford crawled, then stumbled I suspect before he could walk when it came to putting the average citizen behind the wheel of his Model T. Putting our population behind the wheel of a clean powered car fills me with hope for the future of our planet. We have to live in hope. I am proud that my country is finally taking a step towards a cleaner world.
     
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  5. Peter Renfro

    Peter Renfro Well-Known Member
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    Happy for you Craig. Us big Amuricen hairy chested he men will just stick our heads in the sand and let the rest of the world turn us into an economic backwater,because to support or subsidize anything other than the petroleum industry is just, uh uh Gay!
     
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  6. Beth Gallagher

    Beth Gallagher Very Well-Known Member
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    Speak for yourself. I don't want anyone so bitter and hateful speaking for me, or any other American that I know.
     
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  7. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Veteran Member
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    This fray looks impenetrable.......
    Frank
     
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  8. Craig Swanson

    Craig Swanson Very Well-Known Member
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    I have to report that manufacture of EVs and their power source are now on the backburner in my country as the ALP did not win government. Our incumbent leader is a steady as she goes kinda person on climate change so I expect more coal fired plants to be built to further pollute our air.. tho he is talking about cleaning the coal (carbon capture). One of his joint partners is proposing the John Bradfield water diversion scheme (watering our desert thread) to help our crippled farmers overcome the worse dry spell on record and farmers well into the future. I will be looking closely for this to come to fruition.
     
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  9. Craig Swanson

    Craig Swanson Very Well-Known Member
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    The world’s largest miner, Australia's BHP has lifted its forecasts for the global adoption and sales of electric vehicles (EVs), but warns the electrification of the transport sector will proceed only as fast as the development of charging infrastructure does.

    BHP now estimates that at least 132 million EVs will be on the world's roads in 2035, and at least 561 million by the middle of the century.

    The mining colossus..already the world's second-biggest listed copper miner, is increasing its presence in the red metal sector and other battery metals markets.

    Copper is a key component in the lithium-ion batteries used in the electric vehicles, as well as power inverters and in the charging infrastructure needed to keep them running.

    BHP has also revealed plans to transform itself into the world’s biggest suppliers of nickel sulphate..another key component in lithium-ion batteries that power EVs.
     
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    Last edited: May 22, 2019
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  10. Craig Swanson

    Craig Swanson Very Well-Known Member
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    US car giant General Motors has released details of an all-new digital electronic platform that will form the backbone of the carmaker’s next generation of connected and electric cars.

    GM, which in late 2018 announced its intention to undergo a massive restructure, including closure of five factories and firing 15% of staff in a bid to cut costs to fund a transition to electric mobility, revealed that the new digital architecture has been designed to be “EV-ready” and handle the demands of all the mod-cons such as active safety, infotainment and connectivity features.[​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Craig Swanson

    Craig Swanson Very Well-Known Member
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    Our returned PM Scott Morrison claimed during the recent Fed. election that an EV can not tow a boat or a caravan.. and that spells the end of the Australian weekend. Not so Scott. This one can even tow a Qantas jet.
     
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  12. Craig Swanson

    Craig Swanson Very Well-Known Member
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    #42
    Last edited: May 29, 2019
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  13. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Veteran Member
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    @Craig Swanson

    Amazing! Several questions: Are there any areas of any importance lacking electric power altogether?
    Are they offering Tesla cars for sale there?
    Forgive my lack of knowing: Is the monetary unit Australian Dollars?

    Thank you!
    Frank
     
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  14. Craig Swanson

    Craig Swanson Very Well-Known Member
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    This will answer question Frank. The dollar..same as you.
    https://myelectriccar.com.au/evs-in-australia/ Adding Tesla 3, Kia Nero, Nissan Leaf, Audi e-tron. Benz EQC soon.
     
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  15. Craig Swanson

    Craig Swanson Very Well-Known Member
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    • The International Energy Agency forecasts there will be 125 million EVs on world roads by 2030
    • The world’s fleet of electric vehicles grew 54 percent to about 3.1 million in 2017.
    • The IEA says government policy will continue to be the linchpin for electric vehicle adoption.
    However, the IEA also sees a pathway to 220 million electric vehicles by 2030, provided the world takes a more aggressive approach to fighting climate change and cutting emissions than currently planned.

    While battery costs are falling, the IEA acknowledges that government policy remains critical to making EVs attractive to drivers, spurring investment and helping carmakers achieve economies of scale.

    Policies in place today will make China and Europe the biggest adopters, in the IEA’s view. In China, credits and subsidies will help EVs grow to account for more than a quarter of the car market by 2030. Meanwhile, tightening emissions standards and high fuel taxes in Europe will boost the vehicles to 23% of the market.

    As for the United States, the IEA sees electric vehicle deployment growing at two speeds. While it sees “rapid market penetration” in places like California and other states with zero emissions plans, relatively low taxes on fuels and the Trump administration’s intentions to scale back vehicle emissions standards could hold back growth.

    China (below) is already becoming an EV behemoth with new car sales surging with a staggering 680K EVs sold in 2018, pushing total ownership close to 2 million vehicles. The country is also driving growth in electric buses and two-wheeled vehicles, accounting for about 99% of the world’s stock.
    [​IMG]
     
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    Last edited: May 29, 2019
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