Is There A Conspiracy To Take God And Biblical Principals Out Of America?

Discussion in 'Conspiracies & Paranormal' started by Babs Hunt, Apr 18, 2016.

  1. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Greeter
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    That's a common misconception. Through an understanding of the Scriptures and a belief that they are true, it can be predicted that certain people are going to hell, not because of who they are but because of what they have not done, which is accepting the offer of salvation. Although I may recognize that an unrepentant sinner is going to hell, I am not condemning them to hell. I am surely not the judge, and I'm not even on the jury.

    When someone commits a serious crime, I might predict that this person is going to jail if he is caught and convicted but unless I am called to be on the jury, I don't have a part in that sentence.
     
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  2. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    Then I guess I'm going to hell and yet I'm not afraid. My belief is if you've been a bad person and have done bad things you are going to hell wether you accept salvation or not. My belief revolves around justice.

    God wants us to be good and we will be rewarded. It's easier to be a bad person and probably more fun, I see no reason for evil people to go to heaven. I feel that was all just added and interpreted so that the bad can be saved.

    Sorry, you pay for your sins. Venial ones you can confess but mortal sins you pay for even here on earth...in jail.

    Doesn't the bible say an eye for an eye? Why has that changed?

    I think there's been a lot of changing and interpretations of the bible to benefit the sinners. All done long ago before.
     
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  3. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    You can lead a horse to water...but you can't make them drink. You've been led...nough said.
     
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  4. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    There are different interpretations of the Bible and the Catholics say Mary is Holy and it's in the Bible. Why can you pick and choose what to believe? You say I've been led but I feel your path is the wrong one.


    Fundamentalists are sometimes horrified when the Virgin Mary is referred to as the Mother of God. However, their reaction often rests upon a misapprehension of not only what this particular title of Mary signifies but also who Jesus was, and what their own theological forebears, the Protestant Reformers, had to say regarding this doctrine.

    A woman is a man’s mother either if she carried him in her womb or if she was the woman contributing half of his genetic matter or both. Mary was the mother of Jesus in both of these senses; because she not only carried Jesus in her womb but also supplied all of the genetic matter for his human body, since it was through her—not Joseph—that Jesus "was descended from David according to the flesh" (Rom. 1:3).

    Since Mary is Jesus’ mother, it must be concluded that she is also the Mother of God: If Mary is the mother of Jesus, and if Jesus is God, then Mary is the Mother of God. There is no way out of this logical syllogism, the valid form of which has been recognized by classical logicians since before the time of Christ.

    Although Mary is the Mother of God, she is not his mother in the sense that she is older than God or the source of her Son’s divinity, for she is neither. Rather, we say that she is the Mother of God in the sense that she carried in her womb a divine person—Jesus Christ, God "in the flesh" (2 John 7, cf. John 1:14)—and in the sense that she contributed the genetic matter to the human form God took in Jesus Christ.

    To avoid this conclusion, Fundamentalists often assert that Mary did not carry God in her womb, but only carried Christ’s human nature. This assertion reinvents a heresy from the fifth century known as Nestorianism, which runs aground on the fact that a mother does not merely carry the human nature of her child in her womb. Rather, she carries the person of her child. Women do not give birth to human natures; they give birth to persons. Mary thus carried and gave birth to the person of Jesus Christ, and the person she gave birth to was God.

    The Nestorian claim that Mary did not give birth to the unified person of Jesus Christ attempts to separate Christ’s human nature from his divine nature, creating two separate and distinctpersons—one divine and one human—united in a loose affiliation. It is therefore a Christological heresy, which even the Protestant Reformers recognized. Both Martin Luther and John Calvin insisted on Mary’s divine maternity. In fact, it even appears that Nestorius himself may not have believed the heresy named after him. Further, the "Nestorian" church has now signed a joint declaration on Christology with the Catholic Church and recognizes Mary’s divine maternity, just as other Christians do.

    Since denying that Mary is God’s mother implies doubt about Jesus’ divinity, it is clear why Christians (until recent times) have been unanimous in proclaiming Mary as Mother of God.

    The Church Fathers, of course, agreed, and the following passages witness to their lively recognition of the sacred truth and great gift of divine maternity that was bestowed upon Mary, the humble handmaid of the Lord.
     
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  5. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    Also since Catholic is the oldest Christian religion it follows logically that it would be the closest to the truth.


    Many theologians and historians have claimed that the Greek Orthodox Church is theoldest Christian sect but for the sake of political correctness they say that the Greek Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church are both descendants of the original Christian Church while the Protestants rebelled against .....

    Just wanted to add that quote above before someone mentions the Greek Orthodox Church as being the oldest.

    Also, since you always quote scripture, I feel I can post the Apostles Creed as I learned it.

    I believe in God,
    the Father Almighty,
    Creator of Heaven and earth;
    and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, Our Lord,
    Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
    born of the Virgin Mary,
    suffered under Pontius Pilate,
    was crucified, died, and was buried.
    He descended into Hell.
    The third day He arose again from the dead;
    He ascended into Heaven,
    sitteth at the right hand of God, the Father Almighty;
    from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
    I believe in the Holy Spirit,
    the holy Catholic Church,
    the communion of saints,
    the forgiveness of sins,
    the resurrection of the body,
    and the life everlasting. Amen.

    And it says the Holy Catholic Church, so according the the oldest Christian religion, only Catholics are going to heaven. This is all truth.

    Maybe to put the odds in my favor I will return to the church.....
     
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    Last edited: Jun 25, 2016
  6. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Greeter
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    Because that was part of the Mosaic Law and, through Christ's sacrifice on the cross, we have entered into a New Covenant.

    The principle behind an eye for an eye is that the punishment should fit the crime. If there is a serious injury as a result of a crime, you take life for life, eye for eye, hand for hand, etc.

    Justice should be equitable, and both excessive harshness and excessive leniency should be avoided.

    There is no indication that the law of an eye for an eye was followed literally by the Israelites. There are no Biblical accounts of an Israelite being maimed as a result of this law.

    Prior to the giving of this law God had established a judicial system in order to hear cases and decide on penalties, so it would seem that this wouldn't have been necessary if God had intended the penalties to be literally and eye for an eye. While murder was met with execution if there were multiple witnesses to the crime, the penalties for most other crimes were centered on repayment.

    The law of an eye for an eye is mentioned three times in the Old Testament (Exodus 21:23-25, Leviticus 24:20, and Deuteronomy 19:21), always used on context of a case that is being judged before a judge or civil authority, so it would seem that it was intended as a guiding principle for judges rather than as an encouragement to vigilantes or personal revenge.

    By New Testament times, the Pharisees and Scribes had taken this principle and misapplied it to personal relationships, teaching that personal revenge was acceptable, ignoring the judicial basis for the law.

    Jesus speaks to this in His Sermon on the Mount, saying, "You have heard that it was said, "Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you..."

    Then Jesus goes on to reveal what God had intended in this principle.

    "Do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you." -- Matthew 5:39-42

    In giving this new command, Jesus is not replacing the Old Testament principle, intended for judges. Instead, He is clearly separating the responsibility that the government has to punish criminals justly from the responsibility that individuals have on a personal level, before God, to love our enemies.

    We shouldn't seek retribution for personal insults, which is the meaning of turning the other cheek.

    In doing so, Jesus is not prohibiting self defense, as turning the other cheek applies to personal relationships, not judicial policy. The principle of an eye for an eye is part of judicial policy rather than a rule for personal relationships.

    We see this in action from time to time when a Christian will forgiver someone who has committed a serious crime, even killing a loved one. However, this forgiveness is not intended as a request for that person not to be punished for his actions by a court of law.

    We saw something similar from the Amish following the October 2, 2006 murder of five Amish school children in Pennsylvania.

    The shooter had shot himself after committing the murders, but the Amish attended his funeral and took care of his wife, paying some bills that she was left with, and making sure that she would be okay financially, while expressing their forgiveness of her husband and making sure that she knew that she was loved, and they did this on the same day of the shooting.

    "We must not think evil of this man," said the grandfather of one of the murdered girls.

    Much of this came from the same source that @Babs Hunt has quoted elsewhere, by the way.
     
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  7. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    @Babs Hunt , you say you have no organized religion, I don't remember if you said if you go to church or not but
    Holy communion is an important part of going to heaven.


    Jesus said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day" (John 6:53-54). We're honoring Jesus' command and trusting in that promise every time we go to Mass.

    So, it appears to me that you have to do more than accept Jesus as your savior to get to heaven. That seems like the easy way out. That's why I don't get all these other religions that preach what you do. I feel these were all created later and straying from the TRUTH and what Gods word really is.

    I feel that the religion that could possibly come closest to being the word of God is either Judaism or Catholic.
     
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  8. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    There are different interpretations of the Bible @Chrissy Page...but only one interpretation is true and that is God's. Religious denominations and people can and have taken God's Word and twisted it, or changed it anyway they wanted too...but that still doesn't make it the Truth that God spoke through His Word. Why even the homosexuals have taken God's Bible and made it so they aren't sinners anymore. But that doesn't change the fact one bit that God said that homosexuality is perverse and an abomination to Him. For years Catholics weren't even allowed to read the Bible under penalty of what they call mortal sin. Now they let you read it but they have added at least four books to it and tell you that you can read it...but you can not understand it unless the Priest or other Catholic authorities tell you what it means.

    The New Testament says Mary was highly favored (Luke 1:28) and blessed among women (Luke 1:28) to carry the Christ child (or Messiah) and she certainly was. But the Catholic church also says Mary was without sin and the New Testament and Mary herself do not agree with the Catholic church on this. Mary said in Luke 1:47-48a) "And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior. For He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant;.." Mary knew she was a sinner and that God was her Savior and she was His maidservant. Mary carried part of the Trinity of God, Jesus Christ the Son of God and our Savior so she was the mother of Jesus. She did not carry God in His fullness so she is not the mother of God our Father or God the Holy Spirit....only God the Son. I would be glad to discuss the Catholic church and their unbiblical teachings Chrissy. But if you want to do that let's take it to the Faith and Religion part of the Forum.

    As for my picking and choosing my beliefs...my beliefs are what God has spoken in the Bible, Jesus has taught in the Bible, and the Truths that the Holy Spirit speaks to me which line up with the Bible and testify to Biblical Truth. I am a child of God and as such there is only one Truth for me....and that is God's. Before I was a child of God I could pick and choose any truth I felt like picking, but as God's child there is only His Truth for me.
     
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  9. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    The Catholic church may claim to be the oldest Christian religion, but that is another falsehood of theirs that is unbiblical. And the Catholic church is certainly not the Church Jesus started on earth although some of His followers are in there right now being deceived. But this deception will not last for true Christians for they will and are being called out of counterfeit churches right now.
     
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  10. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    You must have been raised in a different Catholic Church because I never heard that we can't read the bible.

    Yes, it's God word in the catholic Bible and religion, and it's the true word because it's the oldest. Truth is diluted as time goes by, that's a fact.

    Seriously Babs, where did you come up with Catholics not being able to read the bible because it's a mortal sin??

    Yes, I agree ...religious denominations that came later did twist the words of the Bible but that wasn't the catholic religion.

    I guess will just have to agree to disagree because I believe the God of the Catholic Church is the only true God.

    We will find out in the end.
     
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  11. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Greeter
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    Here is this, from the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, on reading the Bible.

    "Protestants rejected the authority of the Pope and of the Church and showed it by saying people could read and interpret the Bible for themselves. Catholics meanwhile were discouraged from reading Scripture."
     
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  12. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    I don't see anywhere that it's a mortal sin. In all my years of catholic school and catechism that was never stated.

    My Mother in law had a family Bible that I probably still have somewhere. My husband bought it out when we came back from Hungary. It's in Hungarian but it's catholic. I'm sure the original was written in English either.
     
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  13. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    This is not what I said at all @Chrissy Page. Nor did I say I never participate in the Last Supper rituals that Christ set an example for with His Disciples. What the Catholic church refers to as Holy Communion has no part in saving you...only Christ can do that. It does have a part in being obedient to what Christ said when He told His Disciples at the Last Supper to do this in remembrance of me.

    To the Catholic church there is a lot more you have to do including being a member of their church to get to heaven. But you are never assured of when you will get to heaven because they send you to purgatory first and then have your loved ones, etc. pay for masses to be said for you to get out of there and get to heaven. But they never tell you how many masses it will take either. There are many other things the Catholic church expects you to do to "earn" your way to heaven but most of them have more to do with their own doctrines than salvation through Christ alone.

    Here's what Jesus has to say about salvation: "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." John 14:6

    Here's what God says about salvation: "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

    There are plenty more Scriptures that tell you Jesus is the only way to salvation Chrissy. The Catholic church cannot save anyone...only Jesus Christ can.
     
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  14. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    When I was growing up the Catholic my Mom and Dad were given by the Catholic church a book called "My Catholic Faith"....it was the "Bible" of Catholic rules, etc. that we were to live by. I could open that book... and in it were two things I will never forget. #1 It is a mortal sin to open the Bible. #2 It is a sin to ever attend another denominations church services.

    This is the last thing I'm going to discuss with you about the Catholic church on this tread Chrissy. But I will be more than happy to discuss Catholicism and its unbiblical teachings and practices anytime you want on the Faith and Religion part of the Forum.
     
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  15. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Veteran Member
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    Regarding which is the first church, only the church that was set forth in the Acts of the Apostles and established in some of Pauls epistles are examples of the first church, or the TRUE church.

    There is no indication of many of the Catholic doctrines held in the New Testament Church nor do many of the doctrines of Protestantism.
    If one were to respect the true church then one would follow the doctrines set forth in the New Testament settings which again, neither Catholics nor most Protestant denominations have ever practiced.

    And yes, to go back on topic, the idea of a Godly America is gradually being deleted from every aspect of American life and government.
    Note: The first "In God We Trust was on a 1864 two cent piece.
    Second Note: These are not my own personal opinions but rather well referenced study. If any references are needed I will certainly respect those wishes and produce viable and provable documentation for which there can be no truthful debate.

    God Bless.......Bobby
     
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