Migration, Or Invasion?

Here is a good presentation on the effects of immigration on world poverty.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153055728726682

 

Good luck with that. Maybe we need to control our northern border better too, particularly since many of the 9/11 attackers came here through Canada. It's not so much about their choice of religion but the danger that many of these people pose, as well as the fact that these people, even those who do not intend to become suicide bombers or terrorists, will have an adverse effect on what is already a crumbling infrastructure here, with many people out of work, and many others earning far less than they need in order to earn a good living. A country that does not look out for their own people first is a country that won't last very long.

I'm sorry, but that's not even close to being a good argument. The injustice in what was done during World War II was in the fact that these people were American citizens. Had we simply detained Japanese citizens who were crossing our borders, only the craziest of people would have faulted us. We were at war with Japan and Germany, and either of these countries would have certainly imprisoned or shot Americans who were crossing their borders. They certainly wouldn't have invited us in. Refusing to allow someone to immigrate to the United States from a country that we are at war with will always be reasonable. No one that I know of is talking about locking American citizens of the Muslim faith up in detention centers, by the way, although I am sure that someone somewhere has.

You might also consider that Muslim countries have refused to take even a single refugee, citing concerns over terrorism.

 

Not at all. Just mentioning that the hijackers came to the United States through Canada, and that we may need to control our northern borders better, as well as our southern border. As far as I know, none of the hijackers were Canadian, and most of them were Saudis; which, oddly enough, was not the country we targeted for retaliation. That discussion involving Canada was made relevant only by your disdain for those of us who wish to have some control over who crosses our borders and the pride that you took over Canada's inclusion of Muslims. Muslims hold political office here too, by the way. Of course, they have to be elected; we don't just put them into office as a matter of keeping to quotas. If things continue as they are, we'll probably be doing that soon enough, though.

I try to treat everyone like an equal here, including myself. As long as you feel free to disagree with me, I will do the same with you. On the other hand, if you feel unsafe because someone disagrees with you, then perhaps you shouldn't participate in political discussions. No one called you any names or threatened you in any way. You felt perfectly free to refer to anyone who is concerned over a rush of Syrian immigrants as being Islamophobic and as isolationists, assigning extreme positions to what are reasonable concerns. That's fine, and I am not criticizing you for that, but please don't expect others to treat you far more gently than you treat them.

I don't hate Muslims, and I think that's probably true of everyone here. There were several Muslims in North Carolina when I lived there, and many of them seemed like decent people. I was once in business with a Muslim, and we remain friends. I am not Islamophobic simply because I am concerned about a president, who does not seem to have the best interests of his country at heart, inviting Muslims from the same country that we're a war with to come over here, and I have no faith whatsoever in the vetting process that he speaks of.

There is no effective way to vet 20 year-old Syrians who are coming to this country. Canada has strenuous controls over which Americans are allowed to enter Canada. People with a 40 year-old DUI on their record cannot enter Canada, and they can enforce this only because they have access to the United States database that includes this information. What do they use to vet Muslim refugees coming from Syria or other MidEastern countries?

 

Excuse me, but you were the one complaining, and you seem to be the only one assigning positions to others. I didn't even call you a liberal because I would rather discuss issues, nor did I see anyone else calling you names or assigning labels to you. Offer whatever opinions you like, but don't whine about it when someone disagrees with you. No one was complaining about your contributions here.

 

That's probably best. By their very nature, political discussions involve disagreement, and not everyone is up for it.

 

I am concerned over the fact that most immigrants are young male Muslims of military age, and the fact that our president is blocking entry to Christians fleeing execution in areas controlled by ISIS, such as Yazidi refugees. As someone mentioned, if these young men are opposed to ISIS, shouldn't they remain in their own land and fight against them, rather than leaving their women and children behind? Extended an invitation only to young male Muslims does not pass the smell test as a humanitarian effort.

 

Not all. While I am sure that there are those who hate, I don't believe that everyone who is concerned about the migration of hundreds of thousands of Syrians hate Muslims, just as those who are concerned about an uncontrolled Southern border hate Mexicans. I lived on Texas-Mexico border for more than twenty years, and I can tell you, despite what the media would have you believe, Mexican-Americans and those who have come here legally are also concerned, since it's their jobs that they are taking.

Surely, there are those who hate Muslims. War brings hatred, and since our war is against a people without borders, who can only be identified as Islamic, it is to be expected that there will be people who hate all Muslims, just as there were those who hated Germans and Japanese during World War II, despite the likelihood that not all Germans or Japanese were deserving of it. This is made even more difficult by the fact that our current enemy isn't wearing uniforms. Asking them to accept hundreds of thousands of unknown Syrians of military age into the country, hoping that they won't blow themselves up in our malls or start cutting heads off, is like asking us to allow hundreds of thousands of Nazis to migrate the United States in the 1940s, hoping that they wouldn't start shoving people into ovens.

Sadly, as long as we are at war, there will be hatred for Muslims. That is the nature of war. Yes, it is true that not all Muslims are terrorists, and I will accept that it is quite likely true that only a minority of Muslims are terrorists but, as long as we can't tell which is which, the fear and the distrust will remain.

If it is true that only a small minority of Muslims are terrorists, then the majority could easily clear themselves by fighting against those who are. Yes, once in a while, someone of the Muslim faith will speak out against Islamic terrorism, but that doesn't happen often enough, and it surely isn't loud enough. If it is true that only a tiny minority of Muslims are terrorists then, rather the fleeing to the West, why aren't these young men remaining in their own land to fight against this tiny minority? Why aren't other Muslim countries taking in these refugees?

While there are those who hate, hatred is not required in order to be concerned over the movement of hundreds of thousands of young male Syrians into our country. Quite a few Somalis have settled in Lewiston, Maine. Lewiston is quite a ways south of where I live, but people who live there say that they, first of all, came here legally, but that most of them have jobs and are involved in the community. On the other hand, only a few weeks ago, I saw that Lewiston was listed as one of the most dangerous places to live in Maine. Perhaps it was dangerous before the Somalis got here, I don't know.

There is nothing whatsoever wrong with taking pity on someone who has so much less than you do but, when a nation does that, whatever they might give has been taken from its citizens. When its citizens are opposed to it, or when they themselves are hurting, then it isn't necessarily going to be seen as a humanitarian deed.

 

I do not believe that @Ken Anderson meant to treat you with disrespect, @Sacheen BrightEagle . He has a more direct way of saying what he thinks; but he is never intentionally rude or demeaning to anyone. He is actually a very kind-hearted person, and also a very fair-minded one as well.

Even though we see things very much differently on this issue than you do from your perspective, there are good reasons for each of us to have our own views on this.
Your perceptions, as a Canadian, are from a very different viewpoint than ours here in the United States.
Let me try to explain why this is so.

You have had very few problems with terrorist attacks in Canada, and also not very many people coming in illegally wanting to do damage to your country.
There are several reason for this, Sachee. For one thing, you live in a far northern country, and most of the extremists coming in are from hot climates, and they do not do well with below zero temperatures, and 4-5 feet of snow and ice.
The other reason is that you have always had the most powerful country in the world helping to protect your borders. It is pretty hard for anyone to get to you without going through us first.

On the other hand, we (who have always felt safe, too) are now trying to deal with an overwhelming contingent of people who simply sneak into the country across the borders. Some of them are looking for a new life, and live here peacefully, and we are basically fine with that.
However, we have increasingly had people coming in that were here to kill people and make us feel unsafe in our own country; so now we have become a people who does not just welcome anyone into the country anymore.

When you add to that the poor economy, and the fact that many of our own people desperately need help just to live , and we are not adequately helping even our own people; then it is hard to want strangers coming in and taking over our country and demanding that we support them.
Our vets are dying from lack of medcal treatment, Sachee. Coming from a family who had people in the military, you certainly understand how important it is to take care of the ones who fought for our freedoms.
We have low income seniors trying to live on such a meager amount that they freeze in the winter and have heat stroke in the summers, and some of them do not have any medical insurance if they do not qualify for medicare.

So, we have become like a family that has been seemingly attacked from every area for so long now that we no longer want to just trust everyone that wants to come here. We HAVE to protect America first, it is the most important thing we do, is to take care of our country.
And if America goes under, Canada will soon be facing the same situation up there.