Plato's Allegory Of The Cave

Discussion in 'Philosophy & Psychology' started by Rene Descartes, Aug 8, 2019.

  1. Rene Descartes

    Rene Descartes Active Member
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  2. Bess Barber

    Bess Barber Very Well-Known Member
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    If people want to go the philosophical route instead of the Biblical route, then it's their choice and it's all good.
    For me, if God didn't say it, then it's just man's opinion and a way to reason themselves out of morality they consider not progressive enough for their choice of actions.
    I've never studied philosophers or quoted them for that same reason. I don't care what they think.
    I don't mean that rude in any way. I respect each person's thoughts, even if they aren't my own.
     
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  3. Lulu Moppet

    Lulu Moppet Very Well-Known Member
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    I know you think therefore you are Rene, but I'm not sure you are in the right forum for this. Of course, I have been known to be wrong sometimes. I went to graduate school, as some here may be sick of hearing, at Oxford University and truthfully the only Cave I care about now is:



    I actually know of a forum that might appreciate this topic. It's small, but it likes philosophy.
    I'm done with reading assignments and 'contrast & compare', except for my book club.
     
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  4. Shirley Martin

    Shirley Martin Veteran Member
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    That is too long and too deep to read and reply to in five minutes. I have printed it. I'll read it at length then ponder upon it extensively. I'll get back to you later.
     
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  5. Rene Descartes

    Rene Descartes Active Member
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    The sign on the door says philosophy and psychology. Plato is philosophy...
     
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  6. Rene Descartes

    Rene Descartes Active Member
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    Believe it or not, you just gave a reply to one interpretation of the Cave.
     
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  7. Shirley Martin

    Shirley Martin Veteran Member
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    OK, @Rene Descartes , I have read and pondered "The Allegory of the Cave." Here is what I think.

    Translating the story to modern times.


    The images seen by the people in the cave are likened to images seen by people on their TVs, computers and cellphones to which they have voluntarily shackled themselves. The Beings are the mainstream media brainwashing the general public through the words and images they see on their TVs, computers, and cellphones.


    The “Someone Passing By” is we Republicans trying to enlighten the poor misled prisoners.


    The “Someone” dragging a prisoner up into a world far better than they one they inhabit is President Trump.



    SOCRATES: And if they can get hold of this person who takes it in hand to free them from their chains and to lead them up, and if they could kill him, will they not actually kill him?

    GLAUCON: They certainly will.


    Conclusion:


    Humans often would rather live in the miserable known than be led to the unknown even if the unknown will set them free from their shackles.
     
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  8. Rene Descartes

    Rene Descartes Active Member
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    Okay, that's honest. Thank you :)
     
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  9. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Veteran Member
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    In the past, I have on more than a couple of occasions given long and unworthy diatribes for indeed, the piece speaks for itself quite clearly and needs little if any interpretation. That said, I’ll give a couple of examples just because..........

    If one looks at say, N. Korea, one can easily draw a fairly good comparison.
    The citizens are taught what they are taught, know what they know and nothing else matters but those things that they are told to be true. They are content believing their leader to be a god and are content believing that their lot in life is as it is. They embrace that which they know and to look any further than that is foolish for there is no other way to live. They have been told there is a lion awaiting outside the door so keeping it closed is the acceptable thing to do.

    Those who have somehow seen a different light or life, cannot immediately comprehend what it is for it is not among those things which they know to be true and to acknowledge anything other than what that truth is, is mentally painful and disorienting. The longer one has been kept under the regime’s thumb, the longer it takes to understand anything other than what they were taught and some even huddle back into the old lifestyle even when they are exposed to something better.

    Now, if perchance anyone accepts another truth or someone from the outside speaks of something other than what is common to the realm and speaks of it as something that is not only different but possibly better, there are consequences which come with a heavy penalty. Indeed, scores have been persecuted and put to death just for opening one’s mouth and speaking a doubt as to what has been commonly taught.

    Of course, that’s just one large example but may I finish at this time with: We all have lived in and some are still living in a cave of sorts and accepting anything outside our sphere of reasoning and experience is and will always be painful and filled with stress.
    Shall we crawl back into the womb and hide or is there really some substance to something we know nothing about but need to know?
    If there is indeed a lion awaiting outside the door, how then shall we treat it? Shall we stay behind the door of despair or shall we open it, kill the lion and then eat it?
     
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  10. Rene Descartes

    Rene Descartes Active Member
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    Well done :) People live in fear of what they do not know. It is easier to stay chained in the dark than to venture outside into the light and have new experiences.
     
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  11. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Veteran Member
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    True but to carry it a bit further.........
    Although it is not covered in the analogy, what of those new experiences? If, once freed from the slavery of ignorance, a person sees a world destitute of reason. Would not that person find another mindset of ignorance styled in the form of cynicism?
     
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  12. Rene Descartes

    Rene Descartes Active Member
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    The point would be then to change it. In the cave, the people are captives. They only see shadows, not people. They hear whispers, not conversations. Their environment is deliberately altered to keep them intellectually and emotionally blind. In the sunlight, the people are free to make their own decisions, thus if what they see is not correct, they have the power to change it.
     
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  13. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Veteran Member
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    Yes, of course.
    As Aristotle wrote: “it is the mark of an educated man to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it” ego: choices.

    The further one ventures out of ignorance (cave), the more educated and experienced that person becomes and the more choices are to be made.
    Do we “Adapt to and / or adopt a principle? That which is based on new experience begets new reasoning which looks forward to whether to adapt a concern and then later adopt that concern or deny it altogether.
    Or.....
    Long for that time when ignorance was indeed the simplest way to live for indeed as it is suspected that Solomon wrote: “there is nothing new under the sun”.
    Enter the cynic.....all is vanity......
     
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  14. Rene Descartes

    Rene Descartes Active Member
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    It is not a matter of adapting or adopting a new principal because those who left the cave are adult babies. As babies have to learn their environment, and what causes pain and happiness, so will the people venturing out into the light. There is no one adaptation or principal except not to force the others into chains. Each person is free to form beliefs, and together, they can form a united consensus as to how their community should be governed. When comparing this allegory to the US at present, there are many people who are trying to force the people back into the cave--limiting choices and freedoms and feeding the people controlling thoughts and shadows. The enlightened person says--okay, you can believe that but I do not have to, but we are both allowed to live in the light and be respected for our views.
    One of my teachers in criminal justice was a police captain. We had been discussing the Westboro protests at fallen soldiers funerals and he said... as much as me and my men hated having to protect those protestors from being attacked by those who protested against them, they are allowed their rights and freedoms as long as they obey the law doing it. I might not agree with what others say or believe, and I might try to reason with them or explain things to them, but it is not my place, or anyone's place, to force them to change their minds. But at the same time, those people need to allow those who disagree with them the same rights and respect. The light equates to enlightenment--thinking for yourself and allowing others to do the same.
     
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  15. Rene Descartes

    Rene Descartes Active Member
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    Dark and difficult times lie ahead. Soon we must all face the choice between what is right and what is easy. (Albus Dumbledore)
     
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