Race

Discussion in 'Philosophy & Psychology' started by Martin Alonzo, Feb 16, 2019.

  1. Cody Fousnaugh

    Cody Fousnaugh Veteran Member
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    Sort of weird, but when we lived in Jacksonville, FL, which is 38%, or so, black, there were blacks that were both stunned and happy that we listen to Motown music, have the greatest hits of Kool And The Gang and Earth-Wind & Fire and that we have favorite actors/actresses that are black. Guess they were stunned because they didn't think that whites, or very many, would listen to Motown music or watch a primarily black movie, like Jumping The Broom...…….but we do. There were blacks and India folks that lived in our complex that we got along great with.

    Heck, my ambulance partner, when I was in EMS in Compton, CA, was a black dude, who was a great partner. I felt very safe, with him in the Unit with me.

    Now, if I see any race where the person has numerous facial, neck, chest, arms and legs tattoos...……..I would get scared. My wife feels the same way. IOW, wife and I sure wouldn't invite Post Malone to our home for dinner. Nope, no way.
     
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  2. Tex Dennis

    Tex Dennis Very Well-Known Member
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    In my last years of law enforcement I was responsible for scheduling, we used actual crime data to do this plus jail and offense numbers broken down by race, a very plain thing emerged from that a certain races here DID were involved in the most crimes against persons and it also corresponded to the arrests and calls we got completely, many did not wish to discuss it but very true to fact.
     
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  3. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    Crime statistics are often used to suggest that people of some races are more inclined to criminal activity than others but, in my strong opinion, it has little or nothing to do with genetics or skin tone. It has to do with neighborhoods, income levels, family structure, culture, and a whole lot of other things, which would affect anyone of any race if they were brought up in similar circumstances.

    The other thing that affects statistics is that, traditionally, people from some ethnic groups are more likely to be arrested and charged for crimes in which white people are either ignored or let off with a warning. I say traditionally because I don't know for a fact that this is still going on, because I know there have been concerted efforts to change this, and more recent political pressures have made it difficult for white police to enforce the laws against minorities. Sometimes things swing from one extreme to the other.

    Nevertheless, there is a tendency among police, even those who are themselves ethnic, to assume the worst in some people, while assuming the best in others, and this has had an effect on crime statistics.

    Income levels have a lot to do with it as well, in that those with high incomes can afford to hire attorneys who can prevent them, not only from being convicted of a crime but from being charged with a crime, to begin with. Knowing that someone will be represented by a good attorney, the police are hesitant to make an arrest, prosecutors hesitate to prosecute, juries are more likely to acquit, and judges are more likely to be lenient.

    One case that was in the news a few years ago demonstrated the different attitudes that the police are likely to have, depending on the ethnicity of the people involved. I'm thinking of the 12-year-old black kid, with the toy gun, who was shot to death in Ohio, or maybe MIssouri, within seconds of the police arriving on the scene, despite having been told by the dispatcher that the gun might be a toy. From everything I have heard, I have little doubt that had this kid been a white kid, in a white neighborhood, the cop would not have felt threatened, would not have assumed that the gun was real, and would have not been so quick to act. In this case, the two cops involved were fired, but not for their involvement in this incident. The shooter was fired for lying on his employment application and the other cop, interestingly, was fired for violating procedure by driving on the grass when he approached the scene.

    I am not suggesting that this cop set out to shoot a black child or even that he hated black children, but I think it is likely that he felt threatened by this child when he wouldn't have made the same assumptions of a white child with a toy gun.
     
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  4. Cody Fousnaugh

    Cody Fousnaugh Veteran Member
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    Ok, Ken, but what about when a black cop arrests a black person and that person indicates to the officer "you're black and I'm black, why are you arresting me?"
    From what I can tell, Ken, from reading the opening page of the Internet almost everyday, seems like there is a whole lot of blacks that do the crimes, especially in areas where the black population is high. There were blacks in our apartment complex in Jacksonville, FL that, and some told me this, "I feel safer here on the Southside, than I would on the West or North sides of town." I could fully understand their feelings. It cost more to live on the Southside, but these folks told me they could afford it and glad they could.

    Actually, the black crime that happened a couple of miles from where our apartment was there, the shooters actually came from/lived on the north side of Jacksonville. There were blacks driving down to St. Augustine to do crimes and that was said by the St. John's County Sheriff.

    Blacks, whites, Hispanics and Asians do crimes, but, depending on where a person lives, one or more races prevail over others for high crime. One thing I've figured out, folks from India do very little-to-no crime at all. Wonder shy?
     
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  5. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    The point is, Cody, are they committing crimes because they are black or are they committing crimes because that's the climate they were raised in?

    When they commit crimes, are they being arrested because the police expend a large portion of their resources policing the black community, overlooking crimes committed by white people?

    When they commit crimes, are they more likely to be arrested because the police are not worried about having to face countercharges brought be high-priced attorneys? On that count, there is a balancing coming about due to social and media pressures brought on white cops arresting black people. I'm not making a judgment as to whether this is a good thing, only that it occurs.

    When they are arrested, are they more likely to be prosecuted because they cannot afford the high-priced attorneys who might be able to have the arrest dismissed without prosecution?

    When they are prosecuted, are they more likely to be convicted because 1) they are represented by a public defender or incompetent council or 2) because of juries who come into the courtroom with a bias toward certain people being a part of the criminal element?

    When they are convicted, are they more likely to do prison time than someone with an attorney who is better able to argue for reduced sentencing?
     
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  6. Cody Fousnaugh

    Cody Fousnaugh Veteran Member
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    Ok, Ken, you are making me think now, but. Neither of us are, or have been, in law enforcement. I'd truly know who does the most crime today. I really wonder what Tex Dennis thinks. He was in law enforcement.
     
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  7. Martin Alonzo

    Martin Alonzo Veteran Member
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    I am in an interesting position that My children and myself are the only white people for many miles. Most are different shades of brown to black and you never hear anything about race here there is no difference. Crimes usually are from poor environmental conditions and not by color.
     
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  8. Cody Fousnaugh

    Cody Fousnaugh Veteran Member
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    Well, a lot of times, race/color and poor environmental conditions go together. When a poor area is primary of one race/color, then they both go together in crime.
     
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  9. Cody Fousnaugh

    Cody Fousnaugh Veteran Member
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    Still want to hear again from Tex Dennis, the former law enforcement officer. I still believe he'd know much better about this topic than any of us.
     
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  10. Tex Dennis

    Tex Dennis Very Well-Known Member
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    We did an approved test with an section chief with us heavy profiling people and vehicles in Dallas, not many wished to see the real results nor discuss them stopping a vehicle occupied by 3-4 blacks was found much more to have wanted persons in it, weapons present and drugs also a high % more, much more crimes against persons were committed by blacks on all races next would be Mexicans and so on we also stopped vehicles with exactly the same things other than white occupants much less, also the ever present attitudes came out more in the blacks, not picking on anyone just stating facts, also the phone calls reporting offences were also factored in and supported all this completely on more calls on certain race suspect's descriptions. After our testing we did another on very heavy enforcement at a very bad area housing project within a week or so we started noticing families outside there where not before the pushers vanished but as so many were arrested the mayor said cease the heavy coverage as to many blacks were arrested but they were the problems there also not mentioned very few whites in the area so naturally more blacks, after we ceased all back to normal we made a big difference but they did not like it, so after succeeding totally we were worse off than before the mission was done for nothing so we just directed our efforts elsewhere, almost instantly the pushers were back crime went sky high again and families back inside barred doors and windows, they got what they wanted and found out they did not want it. As said we just avoided that area, all just like before and worse. Dallas Texas Hampton and Singleton Road Projects. Look at businesses in the area they are all barred windows and steel security doors, also noticed the amount of children lookouts for the pushers and dealers, the local residents complained when we ceased coverage there but the powers that be said to many blacks arrested so those prevailed even noted that they sure did not live in that area, a news reported ask one of the members if they lived there we heard him do it that SURE did NOT get on the news! All said and done we were portrayed as the bad guys. Heavy handed cops.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020 at 10:56 AM
  11. Cody Fousnaugh

    Cody Fousnaugh Veteran Member
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    Exactly what I thought, Dennis. I've actually been told, by a few black officers, that more blacks than other races, whether it's over a traffic stop or other call, can get fairly obnoxious with black or white officers. But, they can get shocked when a black officer treats them the same way a white officer would (questions/body search). Not so much with the older men/women as with the Millennial and sometimes Gen X blacks. Then there are blacks whom are totally law abiding, great citizens. This is the kind we met in our apt. complex in Jacksonville, FL (Southside).
     
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  12. Tex Dennis

    Tex Dennis Very Well-Known Member
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    When the 1st thing you hear is the attitude usually more evolved came out in the contact, mostly all negative, even had 1 stop with "you cant get all of us mentioned!" 4 in a vehicle. All I could think of saying was well your right but you will be 1st.
    We did note age played a big part of the problems the 15-40 was about the worst just guessing here but for sure the younger ones displayed the attitudes more, the older were usually very polite and we took all that into the confrontation and acted accordingly. Oddly we overlooked many things that would have been enforced in an all white area just to build a positive relationship there.

    Most of my best friends are not white here I will say.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020 at 11:56 AM
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  13. Cody Fousnaugh

    Cody Fousnaugh Veteran Member
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    A former St. Louis, MO. P.D. Detective, who was a resident at our last apt. complex in Jacksonville, FL told us how he really had to watch his back around black suspects.
     
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  14. Cody Fousnaugh

    Cody Fousnaugh Veteran Member
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    There is a very big reason why wife and I have 100% respect what law enforcement officers go thru and do.

    Funny, but it seems like every time we watch the tv show, 48 Hours, about homicides, a lot of homicides on the show, are investigated in Cleveland and Miami.
     
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  15. Cody Fousnaugh

    Cody Fousnaugh Veteran Member
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    Now, in areas like: East L.A. (primarily Hispanic), Little Saigon (primarily Vietnamese), China Town (primarily Chinese) or other areas that are primarily one race...…….and there are a number of those "primary-to-all of one race" areas in the U.S., if there is crime, it would be primary the race that lives there and no other race.
     
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