This Antony Flew? Notorious? unbiased? "note the main interest" no degrees in science listed. Schooled in Analytic Libertarianism, the one alleged to be senile. Born 11 February 1923 London, United Kingdom Died 8 April 2010 (aged 87) Reading, Berkshire, United Kingdom Alma mater SOAS, University of London St John's College, Oxford Era 20th-century philosophy Region Western philosophy School Analytic Libertarianism Main interests Philosophy of religion In 2007 a book outlining his reasons for changing his position, There is a God: How the World's Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind was written by Flew in collaboration with Roy Abraham Varghese. The book (and Flew's conversion to Deism) has been the subject of controversy, following an article in The New York Times Magazine alleging that Flew's intellect had declined due to senility, and that the book was primarily the work of Varghese;[4][11] Flew himself specifically denied this, stating that the book represented his views; although he acknowledged that due to his age Varghese had done most of the actual work of writing the book.[12] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antony_Flew#The_Presumption_of_Atheism ********************************************************************** Nearly all (around 97%) of the scientific community accepts evolution as the dominant scientific theory of biological diversity.[1][2] Scientific associations have strongly rebutted and refuted the challenges to evolution proposed by intelligent design proponents.[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_support_for_evolution OK so no notorious person in the scientific community is named. The part posted is only a fraction of the article. To be clear, I'll lay claim to being a hard atheist as defined in Flew's book There is a God. What may be off topic to you is your opinion that doesn't make it fact.
I'm glad to see that we can agree on something Bob. Despite your wiki sources being from individuals who are often opposed to Christianity and the Bible, I too have read about the high percentage of scientists supporting evolutionary theory over creationism - a point I made in my original post. This definitely applies to some of the scientific associations too. As I've read books and articles and watched videos on this subject, a previous point I also made continues to surface - that most scientists will only consider materialistic evidence. It has become a cultural trend in academia to limit science as a study of natural processes only and to exclude any evidence, no matter how valid, that may be attributed to supernatural processes. As stated before, this is ironic (and disturbing), given that many founders of our modern related sciences believed in God and creationism. Given the above reality, I understand that the evidence or conclusions I've provided in this thread won't pursuade Atheists or others here who hold a firm secular world view. I only hope that some of the open minded Agnostics or misguided Christians might be interested in scientific evidence that's not being fairly presented in today's culture - evidence that gives credence to the Christian faith and the authority of the Bible.
This would be the perfect opportunity to present that scientific evidence that's not being fairly presented in today's culture. The web sites/URL's that can be read would be appreciated. Meanwhile The bible tells the story of how the "creator" got angry and flooded the world killing all but Noah, his family & what I guess was worthy of living & or feeding the chosen . Why Did God Flood the World? - Jewish Theological Seminary www.jtsa.edu/why-did-god-flood-the-world Why Did God Flood the World? The end of Parashat Bereishit finds God regretting the creation of humankind and resolving to wipe it out along with “beasts, creeping things, and birds of the sky” (Gen. 6:7). Something that explains how 925,000 identified species of insects. https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/how-many-species-of-insects-are-there.html or There are approximately 1.2 million known species of animals, but scientists estimate there are closer to 8.7 million species on earth. https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/how-many-animals-are-there-in-the-world.html survived that flood and all fit on the arc. If not that then the bible version of made in his image when there are skeletal remains that don't exactly look like what the bible would have people believe.
Bob, while geologic evidence for a global flood vs a regional flood is a significant topic that counts towards the authenticity of Genesis, the reason for Noah's flood is less of an apologetics issue. I won't pretend to have any studied insight into that. Reading your linked article does suggest that some Jews and others posture different answers for the flood, but I think most Christians are content in accepting it as a judgemental event. Understand, that believers (in God and the Bible) are encouraged to learn basic history and doctrines of the Bible, and it's helpful to learn the reasons for the faith. But, few of us expect to ever understand all of God's thoughts and actions - particularly the why's. A certain amount of questioning is reasonable, but an infinite number of challenges that many Atheists or skeptics pose becomes an act of futility. For them, no amount of legitimate answering will suffice. The capability of Noah's arc fitting millions of insect species is another interesting point, along with fitting all of the animals onto one boat. I do have insightful material on this, but it's not what this thread is about. Perhaps I'll get to that subject with a later post, along with a separate post on the scientific evidence supporting creationism. My intent with this OP was to reveal the misrepresented scientific evidence for evolution, allowing for a separate discussion later on the alternative view of creationism. So far, there's been pretty light interest in this entire thread and almost no responses countering the points I made. It appears that most individuals here have their minds made up on the matter based upon blind faith, whether it be a world view or Christian view, rather than actual evidence. It does make me hesitant to put the time into posting any future threads on Christian apologetic topics.
Perhaps the lack of interest is due to you relying on blind faith instead of presenting factual information backing up the stories in the bible. I was hoping for, as you put it a legitimate answer to the quantity of insects & animals on the arc. How the variety of human features & colors came out of a single family is another question. Just the quantity of insects & animals was a point I was interested in. If the answer is relying on blind faith and there is no factual answer to that why not just say so?
Perhaps you actually didn't read my original post. I'm moving on, since no one seems to want to discuss the points I raised on the misguided scientific evidence for evolution. If you want to post a new thread focused on insects in the arc or other Biblical difficulties, I may feel compelled to respond.
The Bible is an excellent resource for suggesting the proper way to live one's life, but those Old Testament stories are just fairytales with no science to back them up. I'll go with Darwin! Hal
That could prove difficult because Darwin was all over the place on the subject. He couldn't decide, from one day to the next, what he believed. “By nature, I mean the laws ordained by God to govern the Universe.” -- Darwin “Authors of the highest eminence seem to be fully satisfied with the view that each species has been independently created. To my mind it accords better with what we know of the laws impressed on matter by the Creator, that the production and extinction of the past and present inhabitants of the world should have been due to secondary causes, like those determining the birth and death of the individual.” -- Darwin, from Origin of Species
If you ask a scientist where the Universe got its start, "the Big Bang" is the answer you're most likely to get. Our Universe full of stars, galaxies and a cosmic web of large-scale structure, all separated by the vastness of empty space between them, wasn't born that way and didn't exist that way forever. Instead, the Universe came to be this way because it expanded and cooled from a hot, dense, uniform, matter-and-radiation-filled state with no galaxies, stars, or even atoms present at the start. Everything that exists in its current form today didn't exist 13.8 billion years ago The universe began as a very hot, small, and dense superforce (the mix of the four fundamental forces), with no stars, atoms, form, or structure (called a "singularity"). But according to the mainstream religions God has always existed. So where was he? Do you think he was inside the singularity or was he outside of it somewhere? What are your thoughts about this. I'm curious how God could have existed before the universe did.And apparently he will continue to exist after the universe is gone.
But where did that come from? I always get back to that. What if we're just a few specks of dust in the lab of some giant beings? We can never know for sure where we came from and what we are here for. It's imponderable.
Looking for a definitive answer is what science is doing now. Look how far we've come in knowing that mankind didn't always look like we do now. Or that plants & animals didn't look like what we see now. Take for example that in space https://www.collective-evolution.co...ter-space-scientists-ponder-how-its-possible/ DNA from one source like Adam & Eve ? https://healthyliving.azcentral.com/what-are-the-different-types-of-dna-12198739.html As science continues to look for answers the facts as they unfold. Of course believing that a compassionate caring supernatural being living over 3 billion years still judging thousands of "spirits" a day rejecting some to go to someplace else makes sense to those that believe that is possible.
Since space does not support the propagation of sound, there was no "Bang" per se. I would call it the "Big Expansion". Hal
I agree, I grew up Catholic but am currently a non believer just because none of it makes sense to a rational human being. The one thing that gives me pause is, while I believe in the Big Bang, what created, started the elements before it?