One of the main messages from Tillich, if I understand him correctly, is that belief, if it is to be worthwhile, takes considerable effort. If one isn't willing to expend that effort, (s)he 's wasting time. Further, I feel that he is also addressing us atheists with the same message, namely that we shouldn't consider ourselves smarter than the believers in that we don't waste our time on going through motions.
“Going through the motions” was the focus on my post. If a man truthfully loves his wife, it is not a matter of displeasure or even effort to do all he can do to make her feel loved, safe and secure. The same goes for one’s belief system particularly those who believe in God. It doesn’t take effort if that belief is truly real but I can see how just going through the motions would be. We do have to practice our faith though and that can be hard to do at times particularly when facing some of the temptations that this world is capable of presenting, Now, I admit that feigning a particular faith in whatever is stupid because it DOES take too much work so yeah, I guess a law abiding, loving and generous Atheist is smarter than a stupid actor pretending to be whatever. But, whilst admitting to that premise I also have to point out that it takes effort to be law abiding, loving and generous for all humans not just the believer. May I point out that even without looking at the numbers, logically are fewer real die hard Christians in prison than their counterparts of actors and Atheists. So much for the smarter thing.
Cody my friend-----Your last paragraph makes no sense. Are you talking about non believers becoming death bed converts?
Believing in the existence of god, reading the bible, attending mass...praying. You know, all the things most believers do.
I'm not at all sure I have known many true believers, so was not aware of exactly what they do, or why they'd have difficulty accepting that I do not do those things. Thanks.
There are several factors "responsible" for they way of thinking...such as level of schooling, surroundings, guilt, indoctrination....
Extending the “going through the motions” quip, I have a good example that might help understanding what my position is. Among other things, I’m an amateur senior “clean” bodybuilder. Now, going to the gym has been slowed down somewhat recently but when I go, there is never a day when I do not see someone going through the motions. Either they are sitting at a station and talking on their cell phones or doing some work in a half hearted manner just waiting for their hour or so to pass. The most pesky ones are those who travel around, throw around a couple of plates and then give advice to people whether they want it or not. I have never met one yet who looked like they actually followed their own advice but yet they are at the gym, obviously needing help themselves but thoroughly convinced that they are everyone’s answer to building muscle mass. The thing is, everyone in the gym whether a beginner or a professional knows who is working from the heart and who is simply going through the motions. I Many who say they are this and that are simply going through the motions. They talk well, walk well but something is always amiss. No matter that a person dresses well, goes to church, genuflects, crosses themselves or gives their tithe every single payday, it still doesn’t mean anything unless the heart is involved. No matter what religion or faith a person declares, no amount of satisfaction will come if the heart isn’t in it. It takes work. Honest work. Christianity isn’t a game. Atheism isn’t a game. Agnosticism isn’t a game. NO item involving a belief system is a game even if it seems that the majority of those employing those belief systems look and act like it’s a game. It isn’t.....it’s as serious as a heart beat.
You always come back to me saying that this and that makes no sense Lon. I have preached and taught thousands of people, written papers on a myriad of subjects and been all over this world but yet, you are the only one who says it doesn’t make sense. Maybe you’ve had too much wine for dinner or perhaps I have to use a larger font so you may see it better to read. YES, of course I’m writing about death bed declarations of faith. (note I did not write “converts”) It happens every day. I’ve witnessed a few. People who have convinced themselves that all they have to do is call on God whilst seeing their minutes slip away and everything will be alright. To me, that’s risky business. God knows if a person is just covering the bases so I’ll leave the judging to God because after all, that IS His job, not mine. By the bye........I’m not Cody. Cody is the cowboy, I’m not.
Holy Smokes am I ever impressed with your acconplishments. oratory to thousands of people preaching and teaching myriad of subjects all over the world. What was your doctoral thesis?
By your reactions thus far, obviously nothing you would understand.if indeed I pursued a doctorate. Your own thread concerning “professional initials” should have told you that. Also, you’ll note that you misquoted my post with the statement you made ergo, you didn’t understand that either.
Hey, fellow Disciples of Personal Unity: I was baptised a Lutheran in 1948, when I was 12. Since becoming an adult, I have never gone to church, except to a Justice of the Peace, both times I was married. My wife was educated in a Catholic School by Nuns, and she doesn't go to Masses either, although she observes certain Holy Days and crosses herself whenever we go by a Catholic Church. I don't look down on Atheism...it's a belief just like any other, except they have their faith in Nature and the Universe, which I also endorse. Hal