Bernie Sanders & Socialism

Discussion in 'Politics & Government' started by Lara Moss, Feb 8, 2016.

  1. Lara Moss

    Lara Moss Supreme Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2015
    Messages:
    2,671
    Likes Received:
    5,241
    We all agree with the problems on both sides but..

    1. Sin is here to stay, one of which is Greed. So we can try our best to "temper" capitalism with humanity, but that's not going to happen .
    2. Sin is here to stay, one of which is Slothfulness (lazy). So expecting socialism to be fair and productive is not going to happen.

    …so back to my question in Post #6… "I'd also like to know what exactly Bernie Sanders will change as President that will have a socialistic effect on our country."
     
    #16
  2. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Supreme Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2015
    Messages:
    19,089
    Likes Received:
    18,917
    @Terry Page, I'll look at that pic with my rose colored glasses on otherwise I might think you are calling me a dog. :)

    Ok, enough goofy...don't want to hijack a serious political thread.
     
    #17
    Yvonne Smith and Terry Page like this.
  3. Sheldon Scott

    Sheldon Scott Supreme Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2015
    Messages:
    2,995
    Likes Received:
    4,756
  4. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Supreme Member
    Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    13,054
    Likes Received:
    24,629
    That's probably the best post thus far @Sheldon Scott in that you do give a good overview of what Bernie obviously wants to happen. He wants the government to have the ability to take from those who have earned and/or kept their their wealth working in America and distribute it to those who have no idea how to manage it. In his very essence he wants to the government to be it's own entity far separated from the people when the people are supposed to be the government.
    The sad part is there are masses of people who are genuinely impressed by getting free stuff who care not who had and has to pay for it. The other sad part is that the Bernie followers would like to see the rich, who also provide larger salaries, taxed into oblivion. Note: Poor employers do NOT pay very good salaries.

    @Lara Moss listed a couple of sins and I would like to add one more to it. Coveting. When one covets something it is not that a person wants some LIKE what someone else has, but rather wants what someone else HAS. In this case, people want what someone else worked for namely, their money. Please do note: I also liked what Lara said about the rest of Chrisstina's post.

    My stance is simple. If the kids of today can't get a college education because they can't find a job, join the military. I'll be more than happy if my taxes go for a paid college education when they get out 2 years later. If someone isn't willing to work for an elevated education then that someone does not deserve it and no government should simply give it away at someone else's expense.
     
    #19
  5. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
    Staff Member Senior Staff Greeter Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    24,327
    Likes Received:
    42,631
    Like most people who are in favor of socialism, he didn't understand that what he was complaining about was socialism.
     
    #20
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2016
  6. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Supreme Member
    Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    13,054
    Likes Received:
    24,629
    Bernie Sanders higher economics class 101.

    In this class you will need a lamp, a power strip, and a sense of good reasoning.

    Step 1. Place power strip on a table.
    Step 2. Plug lamp into the power strip.
    Step 3. Plug the power strip into itself.
    Step 4. Turn on the light.
    Step 5. If the light does not light, try changing the light bulb.
    Step 6. If the light still does not light, try changing the power strip, or check to make sure that the anti-surge switch is in the "on" position.

    Bernie's class on higher economics is now dismissed.

    Step 7. If anyone has actually done all of this and are amazed that the light still does not light, there might be a problem and it isn't the light nor the power strip.
     
    #21
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2016
    Lara Moss and Ike Willis like this.
  7. Yvonne Smith

    Yvonne Smith Senior Staff
    Staff Member Senior Staff Greeter Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    14,881
    Likes Received:
    27,873
    When we were kids (and for most of the generations before us), at least those of us who live here in the United States, we were not just given everything we looked at and wanted. Most of us had household chores we were supposed to do, and maybe got a weekly allowance from our parents.
    When we wanted something, we were told to "work for it", and that is what we did.
    I remember hauling garden carts full of sawdust that my mom used around her garden paths, and earning a whole 10 cents per load. Many of the other neighborhood kids also worked for my mom to earn their change for penny candy.
    Except for maybe the really rich kids, we didn't expect to just get everything we wanted handed to us with no effort.
    Even Christmas and birthday presents were usually not big, expensive items.

    Nowadays , kids seem to grow up thinking that they deserve things, and especially they believe that the government owes them free things. We have several generations of children who were raised by "welfare parents" that received handouts from the government. It is no wonder that they believe the Utopian future that Bernie Sanders talks about.

    I am still wondering why you said that Bernie Sanders is not a Socialist, @Krissttina Isobe ?
    Do you think that he is lying when he says that he is a Socialist ? In fact, most of the deluded young people who support him also say that they are Socialists, according to the news stories.
    I remember one program where they asked people if they were for or against Socialism, and several of them said that they like social activities; so they considered that they were a socialist !

    When you look at the Bernie Sanders T-shirts, you can easily see that his supporters still believe in all kinds of fairy tales; so it is not surprising that they believe what Bernie tells them about having everything for free.

    image.jpeg
     
    #22
  8. Shirley Martin

    Shirley Martin Supreme Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2015
    Messages:
    55,669
    Likes Received:
    23,301
    I was interested in how he planned to pay for free college for everyone. I turned to Google. I found that college costs $32,405 per year. Four years would cost $129,620. That's for one student. For 1000 students, the cost would be $12,962,000. I don't know how many thousands would apply for it but it would be many thousands. Plus all the other freebies he is promising.

    The commentary I read said that even the rich are not a bottomless well of money. So I'm still left wondering where he plans to get all that money.
     
    #23
    Craig Wilson likes this.
  9. Lara Moss

    Lara Moss Supreme Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2015
    Messages:
    2,671
    Likes Received:
    5,241
    If you go to berniesanders.com and click on issues you will find his stand on all issues and his solution.

    Here's how he answers your question @Shirley Martin :

    How Bernie Sanders plans to pay for Free College Tuition:
    "The cost of free school Truition for every student is $75 billion a year. The plan is fully paid for by imposing a tax of a fraction of a percent on Wall Street speculators who nearly destroyed the economy seven years ago. More than 1,000 economists have endorsed a tax on Wall Street speculation and today some 40 countries throughout the world have imposed a similar tax including Britain, Germany, France, Switzerland, and China. If the taxpayers of this country could bailout Wall Street in 2008, we can make public colleges and universities tuition free and debt free throughout the country."

    Of Note: Over the next decade, it has been estimated that the federal government will make a profit of over $110 billion on student loan programs. This is morally wrong and it is bad economics. As President, Sen. Sanders will prevent the federal government from profiteering on the backs of college students and use this money instead to significantly lower student loan interest rates.
     
    #24
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2016
  10. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
    Staff Member Senior Staff Greeter Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    24,327
    Likes Received:
    42,631
    Anderson Cooper, himself a raving liberal, interviewed Bernie Sanders this past weekend. He asked about the costs of Bernie's plans. He didn't know.

    Cooper: Do you know how all -- how much though? I mean, do you have a price tag for -- for all of this?

    Sanders: We do. I mean, you know, and... and... the price tag is... it will be substantially less than letting the current system go. I think it's about $30 trillion.

    Cooper: That's just for "Medicare for All," you're talking about?

    Sanders: That's just "Medicare for All," yes.

    Cooper: Do you have a... a price tag for all of these things?

    Sanders: No, I don't. We try to... no, you mentioned making public colleges and universities tuition-free and canceling all student debt, that's correct. That's what I want to do. We pay for that through a modest tax on Wall Street speculation.

    Cooper: But you say you don't know what the total price is, but you know how it's gonna be paid for. How do you know it's gonna be paid for if you don't know how much the price is?

    Sanders: Well, I can't... you know, I can't rattle off to you every nickel and every dime. But we have accounted for... you... you talked about "Medicare for All." We have options out there that will pay for it.

    So what do we know about the Bernie plan? He doesn't have a clue as to what it will cost, and he doesn't know how it's going to be paid for, but it will result in a sizable increase in taxes on the middle class, which is itself a designation that can reach as low as it needs to.
     
    #25
    Lois Winters likes this.
  11. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Supreme Member
    Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    13,054
    Likes Received:
    24,629
    BBBBBut Ken, if everyone is guaranteed a government job at $15 hour minimum, then imagine all those extra taxes at 52%+ hitting the treasury for dispersement!!
    Of course, never mind that if everyone made a minimum of 15 beans an hour that the economy would inflate making the minimum wage a joke but everyone would have a job. If a person can’t get a job in the private sector then they get a guaranteed job with the Government !
    Yeah, the taxpayer has to pay their wages and sure, the government will decide what a person can and can’t do but they’ll be employed by the government which is well known for it’s ability to run a business.
    And to think in the terms of a little heaven on earth, the homeless debacle will be totally solved since the government will simply scoop up everyone without a job and put them where they will be most useful and outfitted with a job they are most suited to and live in houses or barracks that are made just for those workers. It brings a tear to my eye. Really! Or was that just the morning sun. Dunno but it was really a tear!
    As a side bar, maybe, just maybe Bernie will extend his promises to the private entrepreneur and promise employers good workers with liberal arts degrees from a college that the taxpayer paid for too! There are thousands of jobs out there that aren’t filled and there are more jobs opening everyday so....employers need employees.

    Seriously though, medicare for all means that the present medicare system will be abolished with a new care system implemented and that system hasn’t even been invented yet.
    And, even if it were, at the present time our U.S. doctors take in x number of medicare patients so they can see the private insurance folks in order to make a good living. They already scream about all the paperwork, the payment ceilings and the amount of time it takes to get paid for seeing medicare recipients so I do wonder how many talented people will be going to medical school knowing that that $200K home is just a pipe dream because the money just will not be there to glean.
    That said, I do image the playing field in the medical industry will level off a little since those nice European, Asian, Indian, South American and Canadian doctors we are now so used to will probably just stay home to practice or buy a convenience store. I have wondered why there are so many doctors coming in from socialized medicine countries coming here to practice if their home systems are so great!
    Even if the money were available (which it seems is higher than the entire world’s GDP), it would be government controlled and again, we all know all too well what the higher officials in government can do with other people’s money.
    Time to Party!!
     
    #26
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
  12. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
    Staff Member Senior Staff Greeter Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    24,327
    Likes Received:
    42,631
    Bernie used to rant about millionaires. Now that he is one, he rants about billionaires.
     
    #27
    Lois Winters and Ed Wilson like this.
  13. Lois Winters

    Lois Winters Veteran Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2019
    Messages:
    5,191
    Likes Received:
    7,943
    Ain't that the truth?
     
    #28
  14. Beth Gallagher

    Beth Gallagher Supreme Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2018
    Messages:
    20,311
    Likes Received:
    42,316
  15. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Supreme Member
    Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    13,054
    Likes Received:
    24,629

Share This Page