Bible Questions

Discussion in 'Faith & Religion' started by Bob Kirk, May 4, 2019.

  1. Bob Kirk

    Bob Kirk Veteran Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2019
    Messages:
    389
    Likes Received:
    690
    I'm not a bible student. The bible or versions confuse me to the point of questioning what seems to me to be conflicting accounts. Maybe someone that reads the bible can come up with factual answers to what is written in Genesis.

    https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Genesis-Chapter-4/

    Genesis
    Chapter 4

    4
    And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
    5
    But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

    Apparently the LORD liked meat. As creator of all things why no respect for the fruit of the ground?


    This begins some real questions

    14
    Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

    Eve had Cain & Abel, where did everyone that findeth Cain come from?

    Then Cain was marked for death. Not a good sign of a forgiving creator.

    17 begins the story of Cain knowing his wife. Where did she come from? Eve had two sons Cain & Able No mention of Adam & Eve populating other areas like the land of Nod.

    For me Genesis has a lot of conflicting stories about creation. The birds and the beasts are created before man. Another part has man is created before the birds and the beasts. Then
    all fowls that fly are made out of the waters later the fowls of the air are made out of the ground.

    Man
    Man is created in the image of God, then man is made of the dust of the ground, and then animated with the breath of life. Man is made lord of the whole earth, or merely placed in the garden of Eden ?

    The part about the forbidden fruit.

    Eve eats the fruit & so does Adam God finds out and says Behold, the man has become as one of us, to know good and evil.

    Who are the "us" ?

    Genesis 3:8

    God Arraigns Adam and Eve
    Then the man and his wife heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the breeze of the day, and they hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden. So the LORD God called out to the man, “Where are you?”…
    https://www.biblehub.com/genesis/3-8.htm

    138 Bible Verses about
    God, All knowing
    https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/God,-All-Knowing

    How could an all knowing not know where Adam & Eve were hiding?
     
    #1
  2. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Supreme Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2016
    Messages:
    9,297
    Likes Received:
    10,620
    @Bob Kirk
    Yours is a "questioning" mind; lots of us have those. I've spent a lifetime questioning how and why real things happen, such as mechanical and electrical phenomena. Biblical things are beyond my understanding level.

    My question, about the only lasting one, unanswered, of course, is, why did God empower mere humans to enlighten humanity, when he could have instantly instilled all that information in everyone, simultaneously, and far more effectively?
    Frank
     
    #2
  3. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Supreme Member
    Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2018
    Messages:
    11,250
    Likes Received:
    20,806
    @Bob Kirk to even attempt to respond would take pages. I used to study the Bible, but am no expert. I think the most qualified here are @Bobby Cole and @Ken Anderson but there may be other as well. Genesis is a very old book and much of it probably came from the Book of Enoch or other older writings. Of course it is part of Jewish, Christian, and Muslim heritage, and presents a history of mankind as understood by ancient peoples.
     
    #3
    Bobby Cole and Yvonne Smith like this.
  4. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Supreme Member
    Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    13,104
    Likes Received:
    24,770
    If I may be so bold, to start with the question of God giving mankind everything he would need to know, He did.
    According to a Christian Biblical view and that of the Jewish tradition, God made man: Adam. One man given all that he would need to know and from him came the line of men and women who learned, progressed and taught each progression as time went on until now.

    Okay. Who is “us”? Ancient Scriptural interpretation is rough at best but there are a couple of ways to look at it.
    Since we, as humans, are actually divided into three parts, e.g. body, mind, spirit so is God since we are created in His image. Queen Victoria used US and WE quite often when describing herself.

    Another interpretation based on reasoning is that God was talking to the host surrounding Him which was another creation of His. The angels.

    Lord over the earth or Eden? First Eden then given the earth to “go forth and multiply”.

    As @Don Alaska suggested, there could be countless volumes (and there are) written attempting to bring about a better understanding but the best I think we can do is to understand that from Genesis to Revelation (Christian Bible) it is more or less the Chronology not only of mankind but of Jesus the Christ from beginning to an end to another beginning.

    And one more thing just to help out a bit. The Jews have a three word description of what God is and what He does: Above all else, “God is Just”.
     
    #4
    Last edited: May 4, 2019
    Cody Fousnaugh and Don Alaska like this.
  5. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
    Staff Member Senior Staff Greeter Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    24,454
    Likes Received:
    42,930
    Genesis 4:4-5

    That passage has bothered me too, in part, I think, because of cultural misunderstandings. The way that it was explained to me in Bible college, more than forty years ago, as I understand it, is that while Abel presented a blood sacrifice as he had been taught to do, Cain decided that he had a better idea. Although that teaching is not recorded in Scripture, we can assume that there had been teaching or neither of the brothers would have known to give a sacrifice at all.

    The Apostle Paul addresses this in his letter to the Hebrews: "By faith, Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts, and through it he being dead still speaks." -- Hebrews 11:4

    To my mind, the consequences did seem a little harsh, and we might well imagine God looking down on Cain and asking simply, "Is that the best you can do?"

    Paul suggests that Abel offered his sacrifice by faith, and God was pleased with his offering. Cain seemingly chose to offer a bloodless sacrifice, disregarding, or unaware of, the importance of a blood sacrifice that God had apparently explained to Adam and Eve, and disregarding the principle of substitutionary atonement that would later become significant in the crucifixion of Christ. True, we are not given that information in the Bible record but neither are we given any information about the childhood of Cain and Abel.

    Cain's substitution of his own idea in his sacrifice was followed by resentment toward his younger brother, which resulted in the first murder recorded in the Bible.

    Genesis 4:14

    That's another tough one. I have often considered the possibility that the Bible, insofar as it is a historical record, is a history of the Hebrew people, and that God may have seeded other races of people elsewhere on the earth. But anytime I bring that up in a Bible study environment, I am accused of heresy and people start picking up rocks, or bringing out stakes and lighters.

    However, the Bible college answer was that Adam lived to be 930 years, which is 800 years after the birth of Seth, and that he had many other sons and daughters during this time. Given that he and Eve had been commanded to populate the earth (Genesis 1:28), that would make sense. If indeed, everyone on earth began with Adam and Eve, then it would have been necessary for brothers and sisters to pair off. Otherwise, it simply wouldn't have worked, biologically.

    Several generations went by before we were to find a prohibition against incest. I think the first mention of it was in Genesis 20:12, when Abraham lies to the Egyptians, saying that Sarah was his sister, the implication being that she could surely not be his wife if she was his sister. The first recorded prohibition against brother-sister relationships was in Leviticus 20:17.

    For the first family, however, unless there were other people on the earth, they had no choice.

    Genesis 3:8

    That God would make a reference to deity in the plural shouldn't be a problem when you consider that God exists in three persons: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. John 1:1 tells us that Jesus was there from the start. There is also something about the Hebrew term for God being in the plural form, but I won't pretend to be a Hebrew scholar.

    You might also consider the angels. Given that there had already been a split among the angels, with one group of them deciding to follow evil, we can assume that the angels were equipped with the knowledge of good and evil.
     
    #5
  6. Bob Kirk

    Bob Kirk Veteran Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2019
    Messages:
    389
    Likes Received:
    690
    I'm taking the recomendation to read posts by Ken Anderson. I've cut some of the text to parts I question. I hope I'm not making it seem like selective editing.

    Does this seem like a conflict in the bible
    Hosea 6:6
    For I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice, the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.
    1 Samuel 15:22
    And Samuel said, “Has the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to listen than the fat of rams.

    When reading the story of Babel and about the Sumerian Civilization that was thriving between 4 to 5 thousand years B.C seeding other people is realistic. But doesn't explain how those others survived the 40 days & nights of flooding killing all life except for life on the ark.




    You point out the Bible college answer that Adam lived to be 930 years. Did anyone question why only certain people lived life spans into the hundreds of years?


    If Adam & Eve were the the 1st. either made in his image [Neanderthal] or from dust where would the other people on the earth come from? By that I mean the various populations that were discovered since the bible account.


    I googled John 1:1
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john 1:1-14&version=NIV

    I don't understand how the "word" was transformed into flesh.

    Given that the earth & universe are over 3 1/2 billion years old. Angels both good & evil would make creating the earth & universe for entertainment. That suggests to me that there has to be some place outside our known universe for the existence of sentient beings capable of possessing good & evil. What do you think about a place apart from our universe?
     
    #6
    Last edited: May 5, 2019
    Ken Anderson likes this.
  7. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
    Staff Member Senior Staff Greeter Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    24,454
    Likes Received:
    42,930
    Not at all. I may not be able to get to it today because it looks like I am going to be busy in my real job; too busy to take on anything that requires thinking, anyhow. I will be replying, however. Meanwhile, anyone else should feel free to jump in.
     
    #7
  8. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Supreme Member
    Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2018
    Messages:
    11,250
    Likes Received:
    20,806
    I am not sure I understand why anyone is hung up on Genesis, which is basically a collection of allegories used to communicate ideas to people 2 millenia ago. A discourse on quantum physics even a hundred years ago would have baffled most people then. How can we expect to find books collected from different sources 20 centuries ago to be leafless in modern context?
     
    #8
  9. Bob Kirk

    Bob Kirk Veteran Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2019
    Messages:
    389
    Likes Received:
    690
    I'm not hung up on any particular part of the bible. Just questioning that which I find contradictory. As a tropic I don't see why it is any different than what interests others. .
     
    #9
    Sheldon Scott likes this.
  10. Joy Martin

    Joy Martin Veteran Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    May 4, 2019
    Messages:
    4,282
    Likes Received:
    2,405
    ummm, I made it to almost 81 and no bible. Grew up with 10 Commandments and kept most and broke some. I don't really question too much anymore, don't know if I ever did. Just have gone along and did what I've had to do to keep breathing.
     
    #10
    Last edited: May 5, 2019
    Sheldon Scott and Frank Sanoica like this.
  11. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
    Staff Member Senior Staff Greeter Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    24,454
    Likes Received:
    42,930
    The question is fine.
     
    #11
  12. Yvonne Smith

    Yvonne Smith Senior Staff
    Staff Member Senior Staff Greeter Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    14,951
    Likes Received:
    28,074
    I think that i did about the opposite as you did, Joy. For most of my life, I just listened to what i was told in church, and if some of it didn’t make sense, then I assumed that it was my fault for not understanding it well enough.
    Now, in my old age, I am looking at it all again, and trying to actually put things together so that they make sense for me, and not just go along with the Sunday School lessons.
    It is important to me to try and understand God as well as I am able to understand Him. I look at the earth and the heavens, and it is comforting to me that there is a god who created this earth where I live, and that things did not just somehow spontaneously come into being, with no real purpose.
     
    #12
    Joseph Carl and Don Alaska like this.
  13. Joy Martin

    Joy Martin Veteran Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    May 4, 2019
    Messages:
    4,282
    Likes Received:
    2,405
    I started to struggle after my divorce in my 30's from my so called then life partner, religious and god like as the days and years were long...but when that relationship came to a screeching end, I questioned it all and finally Julia Sweeney in her one woman play got me off the fence when I was in my 60's... Last I heard she was on the board of the organization Freedom From Religion which is located in WI. It took her words and life experiences to end my struggle.

    When my dad was dying and I spent 3 months with him, he finally opened up and said "he never believed"...he could have never been that honest in his lifetime...he finally was honest at close to 96. Such is life for many.
     
    #13
    Sheldon Scott likes this.
  14. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Supreme Member
    Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2018
    Messages:
    11,250
    Likes Received:
    20,806
    I began looking at things in a different way in my early 20s. I am still searching....
     
    #14
    Yvonne Smith likes this.
  15. Hedi Mitchell

    Hedi Mitchell Supreme Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2017
    Messages:
    8,845
    Likes Received:
    15,481
    @Bob Kirk ...Lordy, you asked. - now all the different interpretations may only confuse you more. BUT, good for you asking these questions;)
     
    #15
    Frank Sanoica likes this.

Share This Page