Evil People

Discussion in 'Faith & Religion' started by Yvonne Smith, Apr 13, 2020.

  1. Dwight Ward

    Dwight Ward Veteran Member
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    It's hard for me to forgive people who have wronged me and might still be doing so. Thinking it through I had the idea that forgiving an enemy doesn't mean letting them win.
     
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  2. Sam Calabria

    Sam Calabria Well-Known Member
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    I agree with you. I think there is a HUGE difference between the concept of forgiving PAST actions and forgiving people who are currently abusing us.

    I think it is a fundamental misunderstanding of the principle of forgiveness, to placate people who are actively abusing us.

    I don't think that is what the spiritual principle of forgiveness means...at all.

    If we are actively being abused, what we need to concentrate on is protection from the abuse. Forgiveness comes later, when people are no longer a problem..or, a threat.

    I know that police forces are tremendously understaffed and underfunded. And I know there is only just so much they can do.

    But if police would intercede more powerfully, when people are committing minor offenses, it could prevent much more serious actions later on.

    People who are endlessly allowed to get away with minor abuse and minor infractions, sometimes take license from that and just get worse and worse and worse.

    When I was a kid, my mother got an obscene phone call. She called the police. They caught that guy within a week. Now, unless someone is firing live rounds at your house, good luck getting any real action on the case. Again, not faulting the police. I don't think we fund them enough for them to be able to do that work.

    I am just saying we really need that kind of work done.

    And I have personal experience with this. I have several people in my life sending me threats, regularly. No one will do a single thing. Now, I could get in there and stop them. But the expense? In time and money? Go battle it out through the courts for 5 years, just to get them a very small fine and no jail time? Who has a life that can do that?

    So many of these more minor offenses that make our lives miserable...and no one will do anything. It really needs to change.
     
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  3. Dwight Ward

    Dwight Ward Veteran Member
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    I'll be 71 soon and still puzzling about these issues. With my new commitment to Christ comes some new duties, I guess.

    But if police would intercede more powerfully, when people are committing minor offenses, it could prevent much more serious actions later on.
    People who are endlessly allowed to get away with minor abuse and minor infractions, sometimes take license from that and just get worse and worse and worse.

    Funding of police is surely a problem but you also have every minority claiming special rights and charging the police with racism, brutality or other violations. Then too, with the prisons full and underfunded the police concentrate on major crime and let the small stuff go. That gives decent people more to forgive from wrong-doers, making the circle between the two issues.

    As an aside, the fact that the black prison population is overrepresented according to their percentage of the population is taken as proof of racism by those evil white people. They don't look at perhaps that black culture doesn't instill enough respect for the law, granting that they might have some good reasons for that.
     
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  4. Sam Calabria

    Sam Calabria Well-Known Member
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    There is absolutely no demographic evidence that your assertion is correct. The data only supports, what Plato said, "Poverty is the mother of crime."

    In other words...you put any ethnic group into poverty...all throughout world history...and the crime levels rise accordingly.

    Poor white folks exposed to lack of opportunities have the same level of crime as African-Americans.

    That is what the data says.

    There is zero scholarly data than any racial group or minority has less respect for the law.

    You can contact the sociology department of any major university and offer them your assertion. And they can give you all the documented professional studies that disprove your assertion.

    As far as your duties to Christ? Yes, your duty to Christ would certainly include respecting the African-American community the same way you would respect any other community.
     
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  5. Dwight Ward

    Dwight Ward Veteran Member
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    Last edited: Jul 3, 2023
  6. Richard Whiting

    Richard Whiting Very Well-Known Member
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    I agree with most of the above, BUT don't forget to add that the black population has a much, much greater rate of poverty. As others have already said, "Poverty breeds crime."

    Moreover, historically, the black population has been targeted by police at a rate much higher than whites. That is why blacks have a saying, "Driving while black". It is difficult if not down right impossible to have respect for the law when police are targeting you.
     
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  7. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    For someone who lives out of the country, Richard, you've got the progressive liberal talking points down pat, and you believe everything they tell you.
     
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  8. Dwight Ward

    Dwight Ward Veteran Member
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    I agree somewhat. Poverty tends to reproduce itself from generation to generation and that legacy will breed more crime and disrespect for authority in any race.

    Re your second point, you'll agree that this is getting better as we become more enlightened and the police become more diverse.

    I was in junior high when they integrated the schools. I talk about this to my younger black friends. many of whom have white friends. The old racial stereotypes many are raised with tend to fall away as reality proves them wrong, as in exposure to other races in that integration. I feel as if I'm not making my point clearly but that's the best I can do.
     
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  9. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Supreme Member
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    Poverty doesn't breed crime except that crime coming from the need to survive. Minorities were much poorer in past years, access to guns easier, and the crime rate among those minorities was lower than it is now. As a homeschooling father of 6 children, I researched the role of a dad in the family. As society breaks down, there are many families, especially in poorer communities without fathers. One of the roles a father plays if he is a real dad is the display of strength tempered by love. Families without dads lose the "tempered with love" part and strength to get whatever you want wins out. I think the breakdown of society, morals, and the loss of a religious base to that society is responsible more than anything for the rise in violent crime particularly.
     
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  10. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    Yet we have public policies that trivialize the role of fathers in a family and a media that either ignores or demonizes fathers.
     
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  11. Richard Whiting

    Richard Whiting Very Well-Known Member
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    Well, I doubt that living out of the country has anything to do with my views. It might surprise you to know that at least half of my views could be classified as conservative. And, it might surprise you to know that in 2016 and 2020 I voted for Trump. Confusing isn't it ? :)
     
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  12. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    I respond to what people say here. If I called you a socialist, I apologize, as that would be a label that I'd like to avoid using. However, you are espousing socialist views.
     
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  13. Richard Whiting

    Richard Whiting Very Well-Known Member
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    Perhaps on a few issues. However, on many other issues, my views are conservative.
     
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  14. Dwight Ward

    Dwight Ward Veteran Member
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    Halfway with you and half not .... it's hard to compare times past with now because of the different influences children and adults grew up with. I think poverty stricken people are more likely to commit crimes - all else being equal. Defining what that 'equal' is is the problem.

    We do know that the elite want to get rid of the family and have people look to the state as their parents. That means they can teach their own values without regard to any past guidelines. I agree that it takes both mother and father to reach the ideal of a decent upbringing - a rarity growing rarer.

    OMG! You're homeschooling six kids? I can see you on the sled with whip in hand with them all in harness pulling hard.
     
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  15. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Supreme Member
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    All six kids have left home. Five are college-educated and one in a diesel shop foreman--he makes the most money of all of them without the debt.

    "Poverty breeds crime" is a Liberal mantra. but isn't generally true. It is used as an excuse to expand government spending and control of groups. The crime that is generated in true poverty is usually theft to feed loved ones.
     
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