I don't mind rodeos, but I, too, hate the zoo. Recall that the rationale excuse lie is that it makes people more "aware" of protecting them in the wild. That's so much B.S. Implied in that excuse/justification is the tacit admission that in and of itself, caging critters is the wrong thing to do; otherwise, no offsetting benefit would have to be put forth. What makes it most egregious is that those are not domesticated critters. A cow in a cage would evoke minimal empathy from me.
I assume that you must be vegan and only eat foods from organic sources that don't use any animal manures. Do you consider flies and grasshoppers to be living beings? Where do you draw the line? If it wasn't for farmers and ranchers, humans would starve and go extinct in a hurry. How about compassion to humans that make their living by being good stewards of the earth and understand the life cycle and nature and provide the world with food? They are living things also. Humans show more compassion to livestock and game than wolves do, but it seems those concerned about how humans treat animals think that introducing wolves with their vicious cruel style of killing is just nature so that is just dandy. Maybe you should hate cats for their cruel way of killing mice. If humans are intentionally cruel to animals, I would be the first to report them and demand justice. You just won't admit that what you think is cruel to livestock isn't in 99.9% of all cases. You lack the knowledge and experience to make such a judgement. I wish we lived in a perfect world, but then again no such thing can exist. The animal kingdom is based on survival whether you like it or not. The rule of the animal kingdom is cruel. Watch the shows of the order of things in Africa or Australia for instance. Hyenas or Dingoes tearing into their prey just piss me off and I would like to see them all dead, but that is the order of things in the wild and it is savage. I have great compassion for the seals killed savagely by Polar Bears. Snakes and alligators could all go extinct as far as I am concerned, but they all play a role in the cycle of life. Above all I have great compassion for humans, especially children. Children are treated with cruelty at a higher rate than animals. It really bothers me that people can make a living out of going to rodeos and videoing thousands of hours just to get a few instances of abuse in which the abusers are punished. I remember my grandpa seeing a guy at a rodeo hitting his horse and he took off his belt and beat the guy half to death. He had full support of all that saw him do it. I remember one of my cousins break a kids nose for twisting his dogs ears and making him yelp. Years ago an old guy in our neighborhood was shunned for kicking his cat all the time and the cat was finally taken by rescue. Returning back to rodeo, roping a calf or steer, bulldogging a steer, riding a bronc or bull is not abuse. Just like anything, it can become abuse if one is so inclined, but that is not the rule in rodeo and these days a rare exception. With this I am not going to respond to more accusations of being in denial or any such liberal nonsense. Show me some facts with numerous substantiating veterinarian reports and personal observations attending rodeo over many years if you think you have a case, but so far all I see is second hand agenda driven nonsense and accusations meant to stop any meaningful conversation.
Yeah, they're really tough guys! They could really hurt me. Or....at least try. But....who's gonna mop up the big mess from all them holes they'd have in them?
Humans get hurt 'playing' basketball. I broke my foot playing field hockey. Watch wild mustangs meet another stallion...
Really Tony? Where was the discussion to support your accusation that I am in denial? There wasn't any and you resorted to making a blanket statement that if one disagreed about rodeo being abusive to animals, they were in denial. Your response to my lengthy post was "There is nothing more powerful than denial." That is a put down and insult and not a discussion. I fail to see how you have discussed anything of value on this thread. Robing yourself in the "I am a person that has compassion for all living beings," inferring that anyone that disagrees with you is uncompassionate to animals isn't a discussion. And the basis of your blanket assesment of rodeo was based on selected videos and information put out by anti ranching advocates. That falls short of personal experience. I refuse to let you make me feel bad about my life like I am some druggie or alcoholic and in denial. I live in reality, not a fantasy world.
Well, what I've learned from Ken's forum in previous years, and it did take some learning, is that everyone has their opinions about a lot of things. Some agree with their opinions and some-to-many do not. It's just the way it is. My high school years was raising hogs (Duroc) with my dad (legal guardian), while some of my classmates raised both cattle and hogs. We were all involved in 4-H and FFA. Even back then (mid/late 60's), Tony, and a few others, would have problems visiting a farm. My dad, myself and our neighbor would clamp a ring or two into a piglets nose to keep them from rooting up the entire area. It was something that had to be done, but the screams of these little pigs was pretty loud. I got use to it. There are different things that happen on both a ranch and a farm that some young kids (up thru teen years) don't like and they never carry on the ranching or farming tradition of the family. I know a guy in Indiana that took over his parents farm when they retired, but his brother became a lawyer. The brother had enough of farming when he was in high school. Don is a great farmer and visiting his farm was a real treat for my wife and I. The old saying "to each their own" really does apply to this discussion, BUT, zoos will continue to operate, rodeo/ranching/farming will as well. Wife and I had been to the Ringling Bros Circus a few times and loved it. Unfortunately, circuses with animals is pretty much gone. We actually see the last performance of their elephants and it was great.
I would take good hands on ranching and farming over factory farms any day. One must understand that even a calf could take your down. I have had sheep almost knock me over trying to take me with the flock. Some force is required but skill keeps it from being cruel. And one gets the knowledge from practice and competition can hone the skill. Even if it is with oneself. Yes, some cruelty happens just as some parents abuse their kids. But it is not as dangerous to the animals as it is to the humans. The humans try to keep things as safe as possible and be as skilled as possible. But Tony will be one who will say that we must buy our meat from grocery stores where no animals are harmed.
To my question of whether we were in denial or having a discussion, he said on his side it was discussion. Personally, I think he no longer requires anything further. He said he is just talking to himself.
But, Mary, what he also stated that anyone who disagreed with him was in denial. He also pointed that "denial" word at Faye.
That's what got Faye going! IOW, the word "denial" isn't what most people want to hear/read when the word is pointed at them.
Pretty sure that what Mary is getting at is that sometimes, there is just no sense trying to discuss something with someone when they are not actually interested in anything except their own opinion. It could go on forever, and nothing would change, just pages of the same things over and over. It reminds me of the quote about never argue with a monkey. You can’t win and it just aggravates the monkey.