You said it better than I could: "The piglet's screams were pretty loud & you got used to it." People who can make an animal scream loudly in pain lack compassion. And "Getting used to it" speaks volumes. It indicates that torturing an animal becomes easier the more you do it. During interviews with serial rapists & murderers, they also say, "It got easier & easier the more I did it."
When was the collie in "Lassie' roped or dragged to the ground by his neck? I must have missed that episode.
Tony, I can see, without a doubt, that you have never been a farmer or rancher! Then again, not everyone wants to be a farmer or rancher or even involved in rodeo. But, as I've already said, "To each their own". Actually, I'm told that too much. LOL
Besides my mother, I was the only one in my family who chose not to hunt. On impulse when I was out shooting as a kid, I shot a chickadee and I felt horrible about it. When I turned fourteen, the minimum legal deer hunting age in Michigan, my dad bought me a hunting license. We had our own family hunting camp, so I went out to camp, already dreading having to shoot a deer, but knowing that it was expected of me. My dad had built a blind for me at a place where he had been successful before, so I went out there at the crack of dawn on the first day of hunting season. I sat there in the blind (which, in Michigan, was made entirely of brush because hunting from a blind was illegal at that time), hoping that nothing would come by. After a while, I was bored and cold, so I was humming or singing to myself. Even more bored, I shot at a can that was in the woods (hit it, too). That was a mistake. About fifteen minutes later, my uncle came to see what I had gotten. I lied and told him I had shot at a buck but missed. "They don't always fall right away," he said. "You might have hit him." So he insisted on walking out to where I had said the buck was and there wasn't a deer track to be seen in the snow. I was teased about my phantom deer until I admitted that I had lied. Next year, I told my dad that I didn't want a license and he had no problem with that. When it comes to empathy with animals, a lot of it is cultural rather than ethical or moral. As human beings, the more an animal looks like us, the more likely we are to empathize, which is why most (not all) cultures don't eat monkeys and apes. There are, of course, some people who eat people, but that's on the far end of the scale. Even among people, we tend to be more empathetic toward people who look the most like us. A lot of people will eat birds and fish, but not other types of animals, because birds and fish have faces that are less like our own, and those who make a point of avoiding killing insects are in the minority. This, of course, is affected by a lot of other variables, including individual personalities and quirks. If we grow up among people who don't look like us and have good relationships with them, we tend to consider them to be a part of us, and to empathize with them equally. Also, when we make pets of animals, it's harder to kill and eat them. People who grow up on a farm may find ways to overcome this but, although I grew up on a farm, I didn't. Thus, my parents lied to me about the pig running away just before Thanksgiving. I had less empathy for the chickens yet, although I knew they were being eaten, I never participated in or even watched the process, and, while I loved the taste of venison, I would avert my eyes from the dead deer that would be hanging next to the camp. Nevertheless, I did grow up to be heterosexual.
Seems like that applies to both sides of this discussion. Those of us who believe rodeos are cruel are convinced; those who believe rodeos are not cruel are equally convinced. No need for personal attacks from either side... it's just personal opinion. Not part of the rodeo discussion (but then neither is raising animals for food), I can't abide horse racing. Has anyone noticed the number of race horses dying lately? Anyway, not worth arguing over, IMO. I'm going outside to play in the dirt, where I will be cruel to tomato horn worms.
This would (sort of) be me. I hate running over a squirrel, even if it as a case of suicide. I love going out into the woods, but I take a camera. For some reason I don't think I have a right to take an animal's life unless it's absolutely necessary. That being said, I have no problem with people hunting....my brother used to share his venison with me every season, and I eat grocery store meat without guilt. And if it were a matter of survival, I'd kill a critter and compartmentalize/rationalize it. I've told the story of having pot-luck cookouts at work and a woman who had a farm would bring the burgers. The moment she mentioned the name of the cow that we were eating, half of the people put their uneaten burgers down and went for the hot dogs.
To clarify, this latest discussion wasn't a matter of personal opinion. Tony made a statements based on his concept from watching a video and when asked for the basis for his concept he couldn't supply any evidence of why it was cruelty and further carried on to say the simple roping of a calf is cruelty. If he has expertise to prove his opinion, then let's hear it, but he has none. Growing up on a ranch, in a very compassionate family, but a family of realist, I never was cruel to any animal. If animals are raised for meat, then they have to be killed. Someone has to do it to get meat to the market and your table. My family believed that if you couldn't humanely kill an animal and deal with it, then you shouldn't raise it. If you couldn't treat a horse or dog with kindness and as a working partner, then you shouldn't have either. Then he gets personal saying I am in denial about my growing up. That is what pissed me off. He was saying he is right and any that disagree are wrong. I posted that yes, there are some cases of abuse in rodeo and even in ranching by those that are inclined to lack compassion for livestock, but that is the exception, not the rule. I made my statements from experience. He states poking a pig to make it move is cruelty because the pig squeals. He doesn't have knowledge of pigs and how they squeal sometimes just being touched. Then he states the pig poker is of the same mind set as a serial killer. He doesn't want to discuss rodeo, just make one line blanket statements meant to shut down any opposing discussion. In his opinion, roping a calf is cruel and anyone doing it is an abuser and in denial if they say elsewise despite their personal experience and scientific evidence. That becomes personal because of my upbringing.
You are correct. "It becomes personal because of your upbringing." You don't really disagree with me about rodeos being cruel; you just don't want to acknowledge that some aspects of what your family traditions were are cruel. As I've stated, tradition doesn't equal right.
I do disagree with you about rodeo being cruel in general and as a rule. If you bothered to read what I wrote, then you would know that abuse is rare and dealt with swiftly. I do not agree with your absurdity based on lack of knowledge and experience. I will not condemn an entire discipline, lifestyle, or tradition over a few isolated incidents. I won't admit that some aspects of my family tradition were cruel, because they weren't. They were all good stewards of the land and livestock and abhorred any act of cruelty or even neglect. Here again you make generalities about ranching and or rodeo tradition, something you have no knowledge about. Tradition doesn't always equal right, but it doesn't always equal wrong. You make the statement that tradition doesn't equal right, period! That is a blanket statement and is ignorance and the catalyst that fuels the attempts to change history and paint certain races and traditions as being wrong or in the case of this thread, cruel. It creates a false narrative that when repeated to the easily duped, creates chaos with folks protesting that have little knowledge of what they are protesting. I remember at one county rodeo where a young man, that grew up in a small community, was protesting with a few others about animal cruelty. I asked him why he was protesting and he said, "because they are paying me $200." The others admitted to the same thing. It is easy to condemn what you don't understand and have no interest in understanding. You can dislike any tradition you like, but labeling it as cruel is just plain wrong based one a few articles or select videos. It has always amazed me that folks like you want to cut off the hand that feeds them. With that, I am off this non productive thread, that lacks in intelligent discussion on your part.
We were told not to keep ramping this up, but obviously, you want to continue. You are quite frustrated.
To be totally honest with you, Tony, people with your thoughts about rodeo, ranching and farming would frustrate anyone who has done rodeo/ranching/farming before or are currently doing it. So, just what do you think of 4-H and FFA?