I had my two children and had my tubes tied after my son was born since I didn't want anymore children. I've never suggested to anybody to have any abortion. I just feel very strongly about my body and my choices. It's only my body that I control...nobody elses. It's my right. If I feel I can't take the pain of cancer anymore I will end my life wether it's legal or not....my choice. People will do what they want wether it's a law or not. I also doubt there is anyone on here who loves babies more than I do. I wish I could save every one that is abused or mistreated, that's where my fight is...
In my last post, I discussed some of the lines that we draw when it comes to taking a human life, as well as the exceptions that we might make. No doubt, some of you are thinking that I must be a little crazy for believing that killing in times of war or capital punishment was wrong. That's okay, but it's important for you to know that I don't think you are a horrible person because you draw your line in a different place. This didn't used to be so complicated. There was a time when pretty much everyone in any given area had grown up in the same culture, shared the same religion, and drew their lines in the same place. Whenever they encountered someone from another culture or religion, they went to war. That's kind of what we do, but we do it with words. There are people, perhaps even in this forum, who believe that hunting is cruel and that it should be banned. You might think less of hunters, and be tempted to use the fact that they hunt as a label that assigns them a place that is lower on the ethical scale than yourself. I don't hunt and yes, I do sometimes find myself thinking of hunters in a negative way. At the same time, I realize that this is nuts. I do eat meat. There's those damned contradictions again. Most people don't eat monkeys or animals that walk on two feet, at least not in this culture. Why? Probably because they look more like us. Maybe monkeys just don't taste good, or there aren't very many of them around, but I think it has a lot to do with the fact that we can identify more with a monkey as being another living creature than we can a cow or a deer. Then again, I know people who have gotten to know deer, those who had started to feed them in their yard, who are no longer interested in hunting or eating them. That's probably an exception, however. I grew up on a farm and we were told not to name some of the animals, such as the chickens and the pig. I guess my parents knew what a wuss I was because they lied to me about chickens and the pig. Throughout my childhood, no one ever slaughtered an animal in front of me. In fact, I was in my thirties before I realized that our pig probably hadn't really run away just before Christmas when I was about ten. I surely don't think that my parents had lower ethical values than me just because they raised pigs and chickens as meat. There are people who look down on those who eat meat, but they eat chicken and fish. Can that be because birds and fish don't look much like us? Then there are also those who will eat fish, but not chicken, probably for the same reasons, but they draw their line in a different place. Most of us will kill bugs, apparently although I must be better than some of you, because I try not to. On the far end of the scale, there are people who draw their lines so far in one direction that they try very hard not to even walk on the grass. I don't know what they eat, but I'm sure it torments them. Moving the line in the other direction, there are people who will enslave or kill people of another race because they don't look like them, or for other reasons that set them apart. Germany is one familiar example of lines being redrawn, but it is far from the only such example. Lines can be drawn on the basis of race, religion, economic status, and there is some place at which we might have to assign a label. Even serial killers often have lines that they don't cross. Bringing this back to the subject of forum discussions, you cannot force someone to redraw their lines to correspond with your own by berating them in a forum discussion. People do change their minds on these issues over time and due to experience and relationships, but they do not change their positions on the basis of argument, negative labels, and exclusion. We are a group of people who grew up in different parts of the world, with differing cultures and religions, and we have had varying experiences that have shaped who we are. We have to be able to accept that not everyone is going to draw their lines in the same place, and we cannot demand that they do. It would be nice if we could discuss the subject without all of the baggage, but I don't know if that's possible.
I also forgot to mention that not everyone that is prochoice sees it as a way of birth control and that's a very broad and ugly way to paint everyone. I think it should be done ASAP as soon as you find out and thought it over very carefully...it's a tough decision to make for any woman I'm sure. It's a difficult topic to discuss because it boils down to the science of when it is a baby. That's where the disagreements begin and if you can't agree on that then there's no point in continuing. Also difficult to discuss when you are in the minority on a forum. On another forum this discussion Would be going another way. I don't even know why I let myself get into this discussion. Just digging my grave I guess. That's ok. Don't really care anymore.
The problem is that people don't argue the facts of pro or con, I don't think people would get upset about that. It's when someone calls you ignorant and immoral and lacking in empathy that things get ugly...and they did. I don't think I'm any of those things and my life proves it. Flirting is my biggest crime and I'm single, would be different if I was married but I'm not.
No one said that to you Chrissy But, they do have the right to their view and if they think 'people' are immoral, then you or I could put our view as to why they are not immoral - a lot are desperate and I would hate to be in that situation Instead - it got way out of hand, in fact 'vile'
Yes, I can understand someone calling a prochoice person immoral but if we all blurted out what we think of certain people it would get ugly. Can I say you're crazy because to me what you believe is crazy? Not talking about abortion now. What it's all boiled down to is ugliness behind the scenes. I invite anyone that I know and talk to Or have talked to personally who hasn't said anything nasty about someone in a PM. I've done it and it's been done to me.
I see nothing wrong in people having the view that abortion is immoral ! Its their belief and if you want to change that belief you put a clear argument across why its not so, instead of taking things personally And I don't get your last sentence either - lets leave it there
Because this is really more than about abortion, Patsy. It just started there. I don't want to change anyone's belief about abortion, never have.
I guess I just don't understand what is allowed to be said about other members on an open forum. So, if it's okay for someone to think and call people immoral who are prochoice, then it's okay to call people that believe the earth is flat nutjobs? That's a common view by probably the majority of people. You can't just pick and choose, if immoral is okay, so is crazy in my opinion and I've tried to that calling people that even though I feel very strongly about Conspiracy theories. I'm not alone because there are hundreds of websites devoted to debunking them. Maybe @Ken Anderson will clear up what is slander and what isn't. I'm only talking public forum.
You obviously think your response was justified and cannot see that an alternative way would have been better My response would have been - no, abortion is not immoral for those people that are desperate, or, may have been raped It is immoral to have sex with several partners and consider an abortion to be justified in that case There are plenty of safe options out there without considering abortion to be the first option when things go wrong
I think the original post I made on abortion needs to be shown here, not everyone saw it. This is how it all started. I already admitted my fault in it even bringing it up. Folks can and will form their own opinions: http://www.seniorsonly.club/threads/abortion-pros-and-cons.5517/
Yes Denise, I see it now. I was wrong, you would never hurt anybody's feelings or call them names....so sorry.